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  1. #21
    Member The Thin Man's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    I have been thinking this over in light of recent experiences and I believe I have somthing to add to this thread... That is that there is a fourth Archetype that does not fall under the category of the any of the above. I overlooked it because I have never used it in seduction but reading a recent LR by Teevster (here) I realized that it was possible and probably fun. Just outside of my wheel house.

    Archetype 4 The Homoerotic: 50% of "straight" woman have fantasies about sex with other woman. 45% of straight woman have acted on these desires at least to the point of kissing (Science Here)

    As reported to me just from chatting about this with my ladies. It appears there are 3 one on one homoerotic and or bisexual scenarios and 3 group sex scenarios that that come up commonly; interestingly they relate to the 3 archetypes above.

    A. The older or more experienced woman: This is a Pretty Princess Homoerotic fantasy. It is about the luxury, comfort and validation that are at the heart of the PPP archetype. The woman imagines herself “initiated” in the Sapphic arts by a more experienced woman. Often an older authority figure or a more masculine butch lesbian. A big part of the appeal of this fantasy is that the fantasizer imagines that a woman will “understand them” and being seen cherished and understood is critical to the PPP psychology. The PPP girls I spoke to about group sex fantasies were all MMF… or even MMMM...F… With the Princess being the center of attention… Mass lux validation.

    B. But I thought we were just friends: This is the passion archetype homoerotic fantasy. The distinction in this fantasy is that she is neither being cared for nor is she being seduced. Its more,” I kissed a girl and I liked it,” all night. These fantasies tend to revolve around complex social scenarios, where deniability of intention combines with arousing, although potentially innocent situations that then get erotic… It just happened! Passion woman tend to fantasize about group sex in a couple of ways… But always where they are active participants in eroticizing the group dynamic. So rather than getting excited by being the center of attention from a group, they like the Idea of seducing a woman together with a man, or seducing another couple into a foursome. Orgy fantasies seem to be more common among passion archetype woman… The pool party got out of hand… It just happened!

    C. The third in a threesome: This is the submissive archetype homoerotic scenario. She was not looking for it… It is just that this incredibly compelling couple showed up and swept her away. She has lesbian sex with the woman but in is not her responsibly because they were doing it at the direction of the dominant man.

  2. #22
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    Thx for Archetype no. 4, there, Thin Man!

    Just for the record, I want to add, IME a number of women get off on erotic porn about gay men. A smaller, but significant number, also like to watch gay male porn videos or bisexual MFM porn.

    I don't have an explanation for this, and chicks themselves don't seem to when asked. They just reply that it's "hot" or some other such unspecific stuff.

    Might be useful information for somebody.

    Also- don't believe chicks when they say they're not into porn. Unless you're in their secret society, they say what they're "supposed" to say. They read these books that are pure porn, though. When you are on a train or bus and you see a chick reading a book with a cloth or plastic or leather case to hide the book cover, or you see her reading a Kindle with a DDB look on her face, she's reading "erotica" (the female term for porn- LOL)

    If you want to sample what chicks are getting off on, you could get your hands on "The Juliette Society" by Sasha Grey (recommended to me by a chick.) It will bug your eyes out.

  4. #24
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    During the decade before I discovered this community, I was involved with a large group of writers who wrote fan fiction. Basically people wrote their own stories about the characters in famous books, movies, and TV series. The most popular universes to write about in my group were Star Trek, Star Wars, Tolkien, Harry Potter, and Doctor Who. This practice was begun by Victorian Era women who wrote additional romantic adventures for the characters in 19th Century British romance novels and traded them with each other and even had conventions to share their work. It is a good way to learn to write, because the hard work of character development and inventing a believable universe to place your story in is done for you, so you can just work on action and dialog.

    About 90% of those doing the writing and reading were women, of all ages, literally from teens to old grannies. One of the popular styles is called Slash, which refers to using a slash between two character's names, to signify the protagonists in the description, the original being a Kirk/Spock homoerotic drama, which kicked off the fad in a Star Trek fan fiction story in the early days of the www. The basic formula for Slash is to take two characters from a given universe, who are both straight and of the same sex, and write homoerotic porn about their relationship. The vast majority of those writing and reviewing this style were women.

    One of the things I discovered in a writing community of mostly women, is just how sex crazed they are, and how, when unconstrained by editors, teachers, or people they know seeing their work, a large fraction of what they write and prefer to read is straight up porn. And women seem to delight in all pairings, M/M, M/F, F/F, F/F/M, M/F/F, and of course, the large hot tub cluster fuck. And, these were normal, respectable, well educated women, who wrote quite well.

    Take the, "I'm a good girl, I don't do stuff like that.", posturing with a grain of salt. They do it in their fantasies.
    The older the violin, the sweeter the music. Augustus McCrae

  5. #25
    Member ColonelKurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by throughfare View Post
    If you want to sample what chicks are getting off on, you could get your hands on "The Juliette Society" by Sasha Grey (recommended to me by a chick.) It will bug your eyes out.
    For the lazy:

    "Film student Catherine has a secret: a long-held dream, the source of all her sexual imaginings. A dream full of desires of which she is ashamed and embarrassed. And these vivid dreams eventually find their way into her everyday life. One night, at a club, she meets at a man who leads her into a strange world. And soon she is drawn toward the Juliette Society, an exclusive secret society in which all the deepest, darkest fantasies are explored. But for those who join this world, there is no turning back."

    About the Author

    Sasha Grey is an actress, model, musician, and former pornographic actress. Her film and television work includes Steven Soderbergh's The Girlfriend Experience and HBO's Entourage. Grey is a member of industrial band aTelecine.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelKurtz View Post
    For the lazy:

    "Film student Catherine has a secret: a long-held dream, the source of all her sexual imaginings. A dream full of desires of which she is ashamed and embarrassed. And these vivid dreams eventually find their way into her everyday life. One night, at a club, she meets at a man who leads her into a strange world. And soon she is drawn toward the Juliette Society, an exclusive secret society in which all the deepest, darkest fantasies are explored. But for those who join this world, there is no turning back."

    About the Author

    Sasha Grey is an actress, model, musician, and former pornographic actress. Her film and television work includes Steven Soderbergh's The Girlfriend Experience and HBO's Entourage. Grey is a member of industrial band aTelecine.


    Sasha Grey is awesome. The reason for my respect for her is her undeniable type 3 attitude (type 3 in a previous post based on being fully open sexually), even in her scenes she basically did anything. She is also a type 3 from the definitions from this post.

    Hall of fame worthy post because I agree that those 3 types archetypes are very accurate.

    Hopefully I can find it because type 1 PPP works best with LTR mindset women, type 2 works best with women who have ASD/LMR issues because then she can say "the passion was so strong it just happened and it was so hot", type 3 works best with women who are sexually liberated and enjoy submissiveness in the bedroom.


    THREAD Illuminatus' male episodic memory versus female emotional memory is a great reminder about the premise that women love their feelings and if you associate yourself with these feelings you're in, at least in that particular moment.

  7. #27
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    Hi TTM, Bacchus and others, I'm currently struggling with identifying these 3 archetypes, could you give me some tips on this matter?

    To my limited understanding:

    -Pretty Princess: wanna be transformed somehow by another (external force), crave for an overnight semi-dramatic, adventurous changing in life (most living a boring or repetitive one). Also wanna be showered with gifts and be treated like the most vulnerable thing in the world, gently with tons of affection. Love role-playing sex?

    -Submissive: wanna be teased and be dominated, be told what to do and what not. Indecisive, dependent and easily give in to a stronger frame.

    -Overcome with Passion: mostly confident and independent, high self-esteem, love throwing shit tests after shit tests at men and observe how he handles them.

    Besides of Passion girls who are easy to identify, I have trouble distinguish between the Princess and the Sub, most girls are submissive, vulnerable AND craving changes at the same time.

    Also some girls I know feel like they don't really belong to any of the 3 categories, they have strong will and stubborn, not easy to give up control nor showing vulnerability, but also not interest in shit-testing man... Maybe I have to dig deeper? Assuming you can talk freely about any topic, what questions would you ask to greatly narrow down which category a girl fits in?

    Thx and good luck in field you guys.

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    I started the below thread to try and work out the same questions. I feel like I have enough material within me, but need to better understand which type of girl requires which material.

    http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...ng-Your-Target

  9. #29
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFasttt View Post
    Hi TTM, Bacchus and others, I'm currently struggling with identifying these 3 archetypes, could you give me some tips on this matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by hey_lover View Post
    I started the below thread to try and work out the same questions. I feel like I have enough material within me, but need to better understand which type of girl requires which material.
    http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...ng-Your-Target
    Okay I've gotten a bunch of PM's and requests that I share my take on TTM's ideas now... so I'll oblige.

    Even if it takes me hours to write this long-ass post. Now this is an awkward position for me to be in… being asked to share and elaborate on ideas that weren’t mine to begin with… but I did ask similar questions not too long ago. So I’ll just toss a few specifics ideas that are in line my experiences… with a younger section of the female population… as well continuing TTM’s tradition of a side-dish trilogy of LR’s to hammer those point’s home.

    For each archetype, the first thing that’s needed is the answer that age-old question: what do girls want?

    Or more specifically... what kind of seduction narrative appeals to her?

    Pretty (Petty) Princesses:

    - Her heart desires and a man who can bring that to life

    To seduce a PPP with a high degree of accuracy… it’s crucial to make sex with you… seem like it was HER idea. You need to put that “desire” in her mind… and then assist her in the process of bringing that to reality. Which is why with a PPP, Implicit dominance will to work more than explicit dominance. Implicit dominance tends to involve her feeling like she’s “running the show” while you discreetly pull the strings from the back-ground.

    LR: “HB-Athena”

    I went to a rehearsal for an upcoming fashion show… this time I got invited by a friend who was making a name as a photographer in the cities up North... he was going to take a few photos for his social media page… I had other ideas.

    This event took place in a high-school basketball court and we sat on foldable chairs in the visitor’s section… adjacent to the models who were scheduled to walk… which I spent sometime looking at and thinking about which one interested me the most. Eventually I went for a bathroom break. And in the corridor, I ran into a girl in her late-teens newly signed to one of the notable companies in Canada… she drinking from the water fountain.

    With my body positioned away from her... I casually asked her how the rehearsal was going. She told me she wasn’t sure.
    We started talking about the people who had already walked… and she went on to unload the concerns the had about making sure everything was perfect… telling me her hearts desires. Since I’ve walked the runway in the past I offered her some tips about how to address the designers and what to say to them to present herself as “the next It-girl.” Showing concern for her heart desires… and giving putting an idea in her mind that she could bring to life immediately. Aiding in her transformation. Then let her get back to the show as I went on to the bathroom. When she was done with her walk… she came over to by me in the visitor’s section and asked me my name. My buddy who’s seen me in action several times knew not to interrupt the seduction... so after a round of introduction’s he goes off somewhere with his camera. For HB-Athena, I did the usual thing of dropping hints that led her to ask her all sorts of questions… which I answered vaguely, dancing in a shroud of mystique which only led her to ask more questions… at that point I started sharing brief but highly-descriptive and hypnotic stories about my life of constant travel, drug-filled hedonism and my creative outlets… and her eyes would glow with wonder. I could see a new vision starting to take shape behind her blue eyes.

    Needless to say she was deep in my bubble.
    My buddy who saw that she was “getting into me” told me he was going to take off… and catch up with a girl he was dating. Leaving me alone with HB-Athena. We continued to talk, and watch the other models do their thing... but at one point I noticed HB-Athena’s emotional state take a shift… she would alternate between checking her phone off-and on… and making a few absent comments about the girls’ walk.

    She looked a bit bored of the scene.
    So I told her I had an idea… how about she followed me and skipped the remaining rehearsal... an easy suggestion since she was not obliged to remain after doing her bit. And instead come and see a few of the portraits I had told her about. She gave me a mischievous look and said she’d do it… if I promised to “draw me like one of your French girls.” I smiled and said I would. We took an Uber back to my condo… and I gave her a tour which ended in my room and studio. She sat comfortably on my bed, and looked at a few of the portraits. I went into the living room to make us some drinks… came back and offered one to her. Giving her space to feel fully at home in a new environment. Then I went off into another room turned on the stereo… went back into the bedroom and then I gave her my hand and told her we were going to dance… she laughed a little bit. But dance we did… she would turn and grind her ass on my crotch… and at one point leaned very close to my lips. I kissed her… and we continued to dance… and eventually fell on the bed.

    With her on top of me… and this was key because it gives her the illusion that she is in control. After all, how can she resist… when I’m just laying on the bed, comfortable and relaxed as she continues to stroke my cock and bite my neck? The dynamic is reversed… and she’s the one pursing sex. Running the show… while I just pull some unnoticeable strings... I took off my skinny-jeans to ease her access… then put a Magnum condom on. And she eased herself right on top of me. We went from cow-girl, to missionary until she came twice in quick succession and told me she was “getting exhausted.” So I rolled off took the condom out… and jerked off to her pale-body, and penetrating gaze.



    Submissive:

    - To bring pleasure to a man. And clear instructions on how to do this.

    To seduce a Submissive… explicit dominance as well as firm leadership is crucial. She feels that she can submit to you… but this dominance should not appear to be about having sex with her per-se… that has a high risk of inducing ASD. Instead you need to put her on the path to bringing you pleasure… once you can re-frame the interaction from a point of “getting in her pants” to the point of “having her please me” then you’re on the path to getting laid with a Sub.

    “LR: HB-Artemis”

    There was a new bartender at one of the bars I frequented. One female acquaintance of mine who works there as well introduced us one night. She also cracked a joke, that I always have the same drink whenever I come by.

    Last week I went to the bar solo, on a dead-night and HB-Artemis perked up as I sidled up to the bar. She asked me if I’d have the usual drink. I said yes… then complimented her memory. She’s giving me service and I’m validating that service... this will be a consistent theme in the seduction.
    Since there weren’t a lot of customers around we could chat… and I could run some of my usual, mysterious and hypnotic verbal game. It’s key to note that I used very little of it… because I usually don’t have to use that much of it with Sub’s. Just enough to put her under my spell… from there I spent more time listening to some stories from her life as a new bartender… while I made use of old-school GWM sexual state projection... triangle gazing... and looking deep into her eyes.

    HB-Artemis stops telling me about her school-life to mention that she needs a smoke… and asks me if I smoke too. I do, so we step outside together… she gave me one of her cigarettes to smoke, which I thanked her for again and things went silent for a moment. I observed her emotional state briefly and noted two things… one of which being that she was slightly aroused… second being that she was a little frightened… as she took eager puffs of her cigarette. In response to my read on her emotions… I brought the bubble back, telling her about my hobby as an artist and mentioned that there was a portrait I had just worked on… and wasn’t sure if I liked it or not. HB-Artemis pounced on my obvious hint and asked me if I had a photo of it on my phone that she could look at.

    Unfortunately, I didn’t… but I mentioned that I didn’t live very far away… and I’d be very grateful if she could have a look give me her honest opinion on it. Giving her a specific opportunity to bring me more pleasure. She said she’d have to ask the manager if she could leave early… so we went back inside… I went into the bathroom briefly and when I came back she had her jacket and was waving at me near the door. We walked from the bar back to my place…. and I kept the conversation going to prevent her to keep her from over-thinking. Back at my place… we go straight to my bedroom and sit on the bed together as I hand her the portrait in question. She tries to talk to me about it… but she can’t look me in the eye and her voice is trembling slightly... the room is thick with tension. So I take her chin… and bring it to mine. Kissing her softly at first… putting my arm around her so we can cuddle for a bit. We lay back on the bed… and continue kissing and cuddling under the covers… until I wriggle out of my jeans to reveal a throbbing erection. She goes to work immediately… and starts giving me a blowjob that was slightly toothy… nevertheless I complimented her efforts. Then I told her she needed to get out of her clothes… and she wanted to say something in response… but I interrupted and said that I have a rule about clothes in my bed… “No clothes in the bed, since it stains my sheets.” HB-Artemis got naked… and joined me in the bed… and I fucked her missionary until sweat rolled seeped into her blonde hair... and then told her to get on all fours and finished things off doggy-style.


    Overcome By Passion:

    - Teamwork. To be a part of a group or conspiracy with a man.

    The difference between a PPP and an OCP was something that wasn’t easily grasped by me until I started going for them more often.

    You see a PPP wants to be transformed and pampered by you… but an OCP want’s to be on equal standing by you. An OCP seduction is very mutual… you’re raising the tension and her desire and she’s having the same effect on you… it just keeps going up and up until… the explosive finale. While there is a form of transformation consistent with both types... the main difference in your role in the seduction is quite simple. To a PPP the seductive experience is something she might say you did to her... or even vise-versa that she seduced you... however to an OCP the experience was something created together.

    LR: “HB-Aphrodite”

    I was at a night-club with a few of my buddies... one of which got us on guest-list. I made a private section for ourselves on a table just off the dancefloor… complete with a few drinks... a few of them went to mingle to the tune of the latest Weeknd song.

    Maybe I’m a bit self-conscious about my dance-moves… but I rarely dance in public view like this unless I’ve drank enough booze to render me verbally incoherent… so I excused myself to the patio where there was a smoker’s section and a quiet bar. I spotted HB-Aphrodite trying to get the bartender’s attention… so I did a classic “hover” and positioned myself near her… and did the same thing without making any eye-contact for a while. Then I slowly turned to my head towards her without moving the rest of my body… I could tell she was looking my way from my periphery vision. I said something to the effect of if she couldn’t get the bartender’s attention… then I probably had no shot.
    HB-Aphrodite tried to shake my frame a little… by asking me in a playfully-flirtatious tone: “Are you saying I’m pretty?” I looked her up and down… she had the body of a stripper and the face of an innocent school-girl. I squinted and smirked, “I think you’re preeeettyyyy humble.”

    She laughed at the joke and touched my shoulder… she asked me what brought me out tonight. I told her I wasn’t sure if I could tell her… and set an anti-ASD frame by saying “I can only tell you if you’re not a judgmental person.” She assured me that she wasn’t. The bartender finally makes an appearance... so there was a brief interlude I order a drink and she asks him to get her the same drink. So I told her that I was trying to get over a breakup… she related with me and said that she had just come out of a relationship too... get our drinks and sit on a nearby bench.
    Bonding over that via lush verbal descriptions and deepening the bubble… as well as solidifying the frame of “us” as a group… which is crucial. We eventually concluded that it was a good thing we were newly single… since it meant we were free to have a bunch of liberated and crazy sex… and this leads right into sex-talk.

    We traded favorite positions, and I described different feelings associated with 8 orgasms available to women… credit Teev’s for the gambit.
    I observed her emotional state briefly, she was visibly aroused. Quite touchy-feely with me and had a wide and passionate smile on her face. However, she had mentioned her friends earlier so I would have to take the us-vs-them frame to the extreme to pull smoothly. So, I used gambit I learned from Gun but adapted on the fly at this moment. After asking her if she liked to play games… which she said she did… I told her we were going to play one right now.

    And then I asked her to look around the patio with me… and point out the people she thought had the least to offer sexually.
    We had a good laugh as we looked at the dudes in the club… and picked out a few candidates. HB-Aphrodite remarks that we make a great team… I agreed and said that Bacchus and Aphrodite did have a nice ring to it. While her emotional state is still horny… I decide to pull telling her we we’re going to catch a cab and head back to mine… and got up and started to walk, without waiting for a decision. HB-Aphrodite ran to catch up with her team member… and put her hands around my waist as we moved through the sweaty club towards the exit. I caught the eyes of a few buddies and winked. Then we hailed a cab off the street together… and I yelled my address at the driver as we got into the back. It was a short ride, but I made-out with her for the duration of it to keep her emotional state hot and horny. As it turned out she was a bit shy to have sex with the lights off… so I turned it off and fucked her missionary-style on my bed... to the point of exhaustion.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFasttt View Post
    Also some girls I know feel like they don't really belong to any of the 3 categories, they have strong will and stubborn, not easy to give up control nor showing vulnerability, but also not interest in shit-testing man... Maybe I have to dig deeper? Assuming you can talk freely about any topic, what questions would you ask to greatly narrow down which category a girl fits in?

    Thx and good luck in field you guys.
    Yes... I ran into this several months ago once I first started to go out and look for these archetypes in the women I met.

    Which is what lead me to develop the hypnotic-bubble techniques that everyone is talking about... and I will have a new post up about soon. Once the both of you get deeper into the bubble... and she's in a trance-state and amenable to your seduction... she will start to relate to you on an emotional level that's when you get a clearer look at her archetype... as well as her sexuality and how her desire is stimulated. Until reaching that point in the interaction... you can only take a wild guess.
    Last edited by Bacchus; 12-01-2016 at 11:56 PM.

  10. #30
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    its funny. i was just thinking about how i sometimes when i want to get laid and spot guys that may feel like it too, just assume one of those 3 roles, according to how the guy wants a girl to be/has his female archetype ideas.
    edit: oh actually 4 roles

    Some guys expect themselves to be seen dominant and expect a girl to be very submissive in order to feel confident about her interest in him and her value as a girl


    Others want a girl who is like challenging, a conquest, with a sharp tongue who they can win over

    others just see their girl as someone equal.. they feel confused by the genderroles, some of them even have never been with a girl.. and you have the best bet with them by just being friendly and seeing how slowly you can both escalate step by step, skirting boundaries of society at what kind of interactions they feel okay with.

    then you have the kind of guys that want to pamper you or see you as a girl they want to buy stuff for.. the kinda girl you would call a pretty princess type. thats how they see girls they wouls go to bed with...

    dunno it's funny how getting a guy to make a move involves taking one of these types if you want him to go to bed with you quickly.. it's like different guys have different styles of girls they feel confident seducing.. and dare to make a move with..

    sometimes i feel like a chameleon.. adapting to my partner when i want something.. (sex, money, some kind of favor)

    edit: just realised that my first onenightstand was with a guy who liked the challenging girl

    my last time sex was with someone who saw me as smth between submissive and pretty princess, but also needed the equal part to feel wanted/comfortable I think.. the submissiveness was what made him go hot and the pretty princess part was what he felt he should make me feel like/who/what i was?. Dunno. weird.

    the time before was with an equal..

    i notice guys who peg you for pretty princess often feel like mentioning what you look like, how sexy you are, they feel like they need to tell you you, as a girl, are desirable to them. So weird. They also use more of their body to seduce you, put their arm around your shoulders, pull you into their side. Dunno weird to realise this.

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