Also, did I understand correctly- #2 is not seeing anyone besides you?
Also, did I understand correctly- #2 is not seeing anyone besides you?
- I am stating what I currently discover as a "could-be-true" thing. I am starting to remember some things about my past these days that I seem to have burrowed very deep, mostly concerning my mother who has died almost 10 years ago and I always wondered why I never thought much about her. Used to pride myself for "being over it" so fast back then, but nowadays I wonder if "being over it" wasn't rather a poetic way of saying "I'm cementing whatever bad stuff happened not to disturb her death sleep". I seriously don't know at the moment. What I have noticed is that it seems to be very hard for me to motivate me to do anything if it doesn't benefit others or at least others additionally, not just me. I seem to have an almost complete lack of inner drive for personal satisfaction that isn't based on satisfying someone else and being satisfied myself using the indirect route of empathy. I can enjoy cleaning up my flat for example, but if I just think of it as being good for myself I'm not very motivated, while if I think of it as being good for both me AND my flatmates I can clean up regularily. Same for cooking and quite a lot of other activities as well. It's not that I don't enjoy a clean room or a nice meal I cooked, it's just that motivating myself to do something good just for me seems really hard for me for some reason. I do start to remember images of my early childhood nowadays how every time I used to do something out of my own satisfaction I would be stopped by my parents. In many ways it concerned sexual discoveries that are very normal for children this age (as I only later found out), but my gf told me how sexual energy is closely related to any other energy of lust and inner drive, and I can imagine myself having to lessen that drive a lot back then so my parents would think good of me (-> survival tactic).
I seem to have a very strong fear of being left alone whenever I'm not fulfilling the wishes of others, probably also instilled by actual childhood experience. I had to work hard and serve the family emotionally to get a small trickle of emotional support back, and when that proved to be too little, I had to learn to stabilize all my emotions by myself. To answer your first question, I suppose "serving" multiple women serves two purposes: to make them stay with me AND to distribute the risk of them leaving me because I wasn't strong enough to stabilize the whole thing by myself. Or at least I guess I started out like that somewhat.
A little later I slowly discovered that one drive I do possess is one of curiosity, to discover about people and their views of the world. I am very curious of how people perceive the world, how they interact, how they feel and how they can make me feel. I've realized that I cannot satisfy that curiosity by being with one woman alone. Plus in a rational way I realized that as soon as you accept terms for being in a relationship with someone, you'll automatically have a relationship that is based on conditional love (terms -> conditions). I wanted to discover the true beings behind the masks of everyday life, my own true being and the ones I relate with, and you cannot go that deep without reaching for true unconditional love. Which is accepting of someone feeling attracted to someone else too, which is accepting of everything that might bubble up, or else it would put the other one back into systems and images instead of being the real thing. In a way you could say I'm trying to love unconditionally to find someone who re-loves me the same way, and perhaps this is true, I don't know yet. What I know is that the passion for authenticity and discovery of how the world truly works is an authentic one. I have realized that I'd rather pay the price of hurt and emotional turmoil if it helps to get me closer to how people really are.
In the end it's probably about establishing deep and true connections between true beings beyond societal masks and norms. What irritates me a little though is that my gf tells me psychology says humans are basically attracted by the idea of pleasure and pushed away by the idea of pain while I've learned that usually to attain truth there is no way around hurting through to truth. It's somewhat about establishing truth or the mental/very real room for authenticity for me AND the people I interact.
Why am I not making an effort to see my gf more often? She has decided to study some special area that is only offered in one city of her country so far, and although she's very good at her field already intuitively, she'll need some "scrap of paper" to officially work in that area. One of my main goals in life so far has been to help better the education system in my country, and I've realized that in order to do that I'll have to work at least for a few years as a teacher in my country just to get the basic respect of other teachers to respect me as their colleague who knows their problems from own experience. I've been thinking about working closer to her place but I've realized it wouldn't help me get respected in my own country because the environment is kind of different there. Plus living in other countries for two years I realized the value of being close to my friends and family and it's kind of a hard bargain to put all that against being able to see my gf more often. It kind of sucks somehow, but at the moment it's how it is. We both haven't amassed much of any financial backups yet as well so for both of us it kind of makes sense to stabilize in that area as well, me in actually working an earning some money and her in investing in studying so she'll be able to earn money doing what she loves anway.
What #2 is jealous of is hard to say really, and at the core I guess she doesn't know herself. Part of it is probably that you're supposed to be jealous in that situation or something. She's having her kid and her kid's reputation to worry about though, so that probably affects things as well. She told me a few times now that she wants to end things because she can't stand the idea of me loving someone else beside her but so far she never did. She also told me that she had planned to make our interaction stay a ONS thing but kind of failed to do so because I was too nice to stay around so far. She's working on it though, so it might be over any time, but so far I had a background feeling that even if it did happen she'd be happy to reconcile a little while later.
Edit, because I saw the question too late:
Last edited by Jester; 11-01-2016 at 06:09 PM.
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I can understand your thinking process better now. Nothing wrong with a two-way dialogue in my opinion... but we can cool it, if needed
This guy (your husand) should feel nervous. Just if I'm keeping it real for him.
I saw this thread and couldn't respond until I'd read it all, because for me, the answer here isn't super simple at all.
I believe the guy is doing what I'd call passifying, meaning he is passifying your concerns rather than working through them with you.
I get the sense he is doing that cuz of his own immaturity and antsiness (cuz hes got a supporting wife, in theory, he's over eager).
Personally, there is no eagerness all that necessary, and rules are important to prtect self esteem.
Emotional bonds, create a certain link between a couples self esteem, and unless you build both people up to handle it open, you can unintntionally trigger each other.
On the other hand, it can be a good thing, add energy and a sense of liberation.
I mention he might wanna feel more nervous, cuz he's playing with fire in how he's going about it. (not the date, it seemed quaint enough)
One thing I know, is you don't try to go after women, when you don't know how, and think its going to be easy.
It will be easier for YOU to do the open relationship thing here, than him, WHEN you are emtionally ready.
And that for him could be a killer blow, cuz he might get left behhind in the dust, freak out, try to close it again.
But by that time, you are into it so won't close it.
He's not really thought it through. Maybe hes thought about needing it. But not about the realistic application of it.
I'd say that this is an experimental phase of the open relationship, if I was him, "just so we can figure out aspects of it" and I'd not push you into uncomfortablle positions too much.
But he seems a bit dismissive of the concern of doing it right, cuz hes afraid he might not be able to do it at all.
You are obviusly creeped out by having less of a say in this than youd like, which tips me off to your possible, further liking of it down the road (more than him) and him becoming far more jealous than you are now.
Aaaanyways, thats what I think,
Kisses and touching a persons butt on a date is nothing (even for a woman I deeply love)
But it wasn't always that way
I have such intense jealousy and envy, that I literally feel a pull of violence streak through me.
With time, I've grown to see that those I love are never able to be grasped... Only seen deeper and better. And by understanding them better I can reach them in my mind, and then bettter relate in person too. To reach them better in my mind, I've needed to get past my jealous streak. God was that fucking hard.
A friend of mine coined a phrase he called "the lazarus curve", and what this means is that in order to change another part of you sort of freezes up, gets worked n a while, then at the other end you unfreeze and come out with a new aspect of yourself that is reborn.
To get over jealousy requires a lazarus curve otherwise, what can happen is, your frozen part of yourself might be your resentment. If so, it will mean your resentment is what is about to evolve, and if it does (as there are indications of, the disgust etc) it will "frame out" your husband when it immerges inorder to "frame in" the new mindset of no jealousy.
THAT is why he oughta be nervous. And less passifying right now. He's playing with it, a lil too fucking lightly if I'm being honest.
As a seducer, I can see a few strategies to screwing him over as a competing male, cuz of how he is going abut this, with a HIGH likelihood of success.
a) use your fear of jealousy to create authority he lacks
b) use your pincered in position to blind you to any of my own pincer moves (I could pursue more aggressively cuz of this)
c) the high potential to pull on your "oh god yes" feels, and make you not care for several hours about your husband (once that snowball starts rolling downhiill you will start to learn how to frame him out very easily)
So, he's being daft.
I wouldn't hold it against him too much though.
Just remind him, that he shouldn't be shortsighted, and he too will face jealousy, and he might not be able to control it all, cuz YOU might not be able to control it all...
Hmmm... another thing I read in you is...
You are hiding a part of you he might resent and hate you for if you revealled it to him (maybe you know it?)
This part of you will unfold during the open relationship, most likely.
I think he's being oblivious to it, and it could burn him quite bad.
Its not just a question of your jealousy, it is a question of you feeling segregated. You don't want to feel that way cuz its fucking freaky.
And while he dismisses it, you see darker shit unfolding in you, that you don't know how should be channelled.
Personally, I used to channel it in ways to do good. (a lot of the men in here are parrotinng the idea that if you use dark drives for good, it can be a good thing, without entirely understanding it)
Basically, the dark side of us, is the side that weathers change and turmoil, by absorbing aspects of it and channelling it into passionate outlets. It is by its nature very hungry when let off the chain.
But it is also, in the case of women, very mothering/feminine.
So, when dark sides of you unravel you can guide it into protectiveness, as much as self gratification.
In this way you can better rationalise acts of sex by going about them in a more protective way, but while also letting out SOME of your fears.
THIS is prefferable to you framing OUT your husband. Or a man coming along, and helping you frame him out.
I dunno, he shouldn't be all jittery about this if he's got any serious intent for good coming from this, he has to sober up aa bit and see this as work and effort to get right.
Not just think its about your perception taking things lightly.
Nah, you are in part right to worry, you are protecting him in your own selfdenial kinnda way.
Only question is, when the self denial bit breaks off, what comes out of the darkness?
A sensual goddess, that knows how to protect.
Or a disillusioned girl who has fear and little else to guide her through
God it makes me sad, but not as sad as other peoples situations,
Things could definately be muuuuuch worse, you are in a fairly good spot options wise,
Don't fall for the societal illusion that life ought to be a happy cuple and that anythhing outside that isn't normal
Life ordinarily is anything but that
S the fact you are close to that but have an open door to being able tto cultivate your darkness in the right way is a good thing
Just make sure the wrong parts of you aren't in the cucoon being fed by this jealousy and confusion, or you'll frame your husband out
You gotta feed wisdom of your darker self
Acknowledge a piece of your denial of self a little at a time, so it doesn't twist you up
So when you do unfold that sexuality, the husband doesn't have a heart attack, and you dont feel like a monster.
You need to understand its purpose in you, why shes chained up, and how she can behave when free.
My sexual appetite is like... a wild animal.
I used to have it on a leash. I'd let it bark and hold the leash back so it couldn't get to anything.
As I learrnt to unleash him for the first time, I taught him how to breathe, how to be present, to not chae, but sit like a lion... just exude awesomeness.
But, later on, I then tried to train it so I could go without any leash at alll, and basically there are times its a for real animal and just runs at stuff and is terrifying
I had to learn "control" of my unleashed self
These days, my inner animal he roams behind me, he won't run after anything, he's not on a leash,
And the only reason he listens to me, is I am fully intune with his lust, and capable of feeling his lust as my own and telling him to be patient.
This is no easy task... to do it you must be truly capable of holding burdens of future outcomes in your head all at once and quell the intense fear in less time than it takes for that animal lust to take over.
Once you can do this however, hormones no longer rule you when you unleash your sexual side, and you can act for ultimate good, protection etc with even the wildest part of your sexuality.
I have a feeling, if you did this, your husbands role might get minimised to some degree though, and he might be uncomfortable. Though such a thing shouldn't deter you. Not entirely.
So I honestly think he should be far more nervous than he is.
You are both green on this, and typically the danger is that frames go wrong, animals when unleashed can do all kinds of shit you never thought youd do, and you won't know ANY WAY AT ALL how to deal with it.
IMO, the issue is probably a bit bigger than just jealousy.
And the husband is being a little more insincere about this than he knows, because of his old insecurities and eg narrative.
Like I said though, you are in a better spot than most, no need to get gahr!
Its very likely your husband gets demotivated by the difficulty of the open relationship.
SO BE PATIENT, both of you!
Not eveything has to be done RIGHT FUCKING NOW
Thats how mistakes get made
Thank you for taking your time to respond. I appreciate your opinion, and I sense you are right on many things. I am working on myself, I am trying. I am trying to do this right, regardless of what he does/doesn't, I know there are things/situations to watch out for, and I think I am past the time of getting into a situation that I would not know what to do with. I would like to believe it, anyway. I will come out of this better and stronger.
Tell me, thecostof success, how did you overcome the initial anger of jealousy?
Her digging knives in didn't help either... calling me names in heer head (it wasn't necessarily out loud).
I had this like pounding heart and urgency.
I stopped myself cuz I knew I was being wrong... but that lead to me wanting to say "I am not wrong" and scream at anyone with a different view.
For a fair while, my view was made to be more conservative, and when I heard guys talk about "just let her smell a beautiful flower" I scoffed (a good friend said that, he's not wrong, just wasn't for me at the time very convincing). I had this urge to just, flip out, prove I was sexier than her, so I went out to seduce chicks (was so easy it seemed cruel to the girls, so I stopped). I then affirmed to myself, that I'd get through it, the right way, even if I felt it was unfair, and that I was buried under it, and that my worth was suffering as a result of it. I wanted to end the questions it was raising about me, so argued in my head why I was justified.
But then I'd stop myself and force myself to understand another side to it. And I did it over and over again, until I really didn't want to do it anymore and wanted to give up. Then I gave generously, and my heart started to glow, and lead my intuition, towards acceptance. I then slowly began to better understand reality again, without it feeling forced. And then eventually as I looked at her, I started to realise I couldn't just keep feeling jealousy towards her actions anymore. I grieved it... And found new power in myself, and how to be there for her without that streak in me.
Now, I have no jealousy, just a sort of discomfort, around it. And I manage my impulses to act dismissive or flippant. And I've slowly worked on my "voice", or my real opinion, which is that "I desired exceptions, and hated that I was made to accept rehabilitation... but that its not about her... its about what love I couldn't even accept, or ask for"
I dunno, its complicated when jealousy cuts SO CLOSE.
How it peels back the illusions of how close we are to such scary things...
Now, I dunno, I shine with love, just cuz, thats who I choose to be.
But, I dunno if I do it only for her peace of mind. It got so hard to validate that. So I do it in order to respect my larger self.
Jealousy is at its worst, closest to your love.
I'm a seducer, but when I get close to my love, I lose all power.
Its true of women too...
Part of it is having compassion for yourself and respecting yourself enough to not solve it today or right now.
I dunno, it sucks. Really brought me to limits I didn't know I had.
But, I learnt stuff I suppose, real stuff.
--- Self control
--- Benefit of the doubt (not that bad shit didn't exist but I could see it different by keeping open enough)
--- Get away from justification, move towards questioning, mystery of life type feels
--- Grieve in order to let your emotions move (not in order to exhaust yourself or amplify a sense of the problem) hopefully it becomes graceful/comforting
--- Find your inner leadership again (not built in anger, but in reflection and grace)
--- Peel back illusions and develop a steady voice and clear view, (neutral outcome dependency, but with the awareness nudging towards the best directions for you)
--- Have a well of generousity to let out, like a roar, so it gets into your blood (lets you finalise all the grief through love)
--- Become curious, cat-like, but manage the instinct to flee or be too ellusive
--- Develop a settled sense of competance and awake knowledge of things
Last edited by thecostofsuccess; 11-08-2016 at 02:59 PM.
open wife, this is a bit off topic... But i would recommend to you, to read the passion trap when you get a chance...https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Trap-...e+passion+trap
I can see myself in so many things you said. Thank you. It's encouraging.