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  1. #1
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    Shityt Emotion next to team leader

    Hey guys, I have a problem I wasnt able to solve yet on my workplace:

    I have this weird emotion when sitting next to my team leader and it annoys me that I cannot let go of it. I cannot concentration on the work then. My attention always goes back to him. I cannot cut him out of my awareness and completely ignore him.

    It is the situation that is fucked.

    When I talk to him I have no single problem with him but when I want to work it fucks me up that he is sitting next to me. I always feel like I need to talk to him. It's damn hard to be quiet and concentrate myself. I KNOW the problem is me and not to blame the team leader. It's hard for me to accept that I often catch myself blaming him. However I need to find my peace while working around him.
    To clarify the situation: I have absolute competence in doing my work when I'm alone. I like my work and I have fun doing it and Im doing it good.

    I think it's a problem of near and distance. He is to close for me mentally. During conversation this is okay for me to share and exchange personal stories and be personal and be that close. But while working I need to be alone. And I dont feel like that when he is next to me. I cannot cut the connection then.
    I'm just confused. I cannot identify what I expirience and I dont know how to handle it yet.

    Some thoughts on the why:
    -near and distance
    -anxiety to make him angry (saw him several times raging on someone)
    -last year on the christmas party he was crossing the "proffessional" line by poking me on the dancefloor.
    which both leeds to feeling not 100% save
    -too much of he is like me thoughts
    -bringing problems with family to workplace
    -feeling he nows how I feel and then feel extra bad for making him worry + thinking he feels the same way with me.
    -beeing childish around him.
    -bringing a family construct into the workplace, like feeling he is my father, my coworker is my brother and the older female coworker my mother.



    so enough said. Either you understand my problem or not. I think you get the impression. However
    @Impulse leaving is no option for me. This is one problem. I have several good reasons to stay.
    @Ij is this one situation where you say it should not be analized because it gets worse? What's your input then? I live it almost daily so the answer cannot be, it comes with expirience.

    Edit:
    Observation I think the personal lvl opened the room for mututal whining/complaining. That is a behaviour that I feel is not productive and that's why It disturbs me in my team leader. Because I have that vision of a good worker and when I look up I want to see that.

    Anyhow, now it's home time so have a nice evening!
    Cheers beckstar
    Last edited by Beckstar101; 12-09-2016 at 10:20 AM.

  2. #2



    Two possible reasons come to mind:

    - You might be an empath like myself and pick up nuances in moods easily. When I enter a room, I can usually feel how everyone else feels. Although this is a very valuable gift most of the times, it can also lead to over-stimulation and shutdown, making you feel very weird, or to the habit of making sure everyone around you feels alright so you won't be bothered by their bad feelings when they arise. I have spent several years with an old female friend of mine who had a psychotic disorder and would freak out regularily for no apparent reason. She told me that some people have told her she should "stop entering them", and although at first I didn't know what she was talking about, my stepmother told me a similar story of how some people were kind of "entering" her space, overwhelming her emotionally, and she couldn't stay close to those for too long. This seems to be true to everyone on a subconscious level (it's when you feel uncomfortable with someone without an apparent reason) but some people can half-consciously relate it to certain "energies" and have it easier dealing with those.

    - My gf who studies to become a therapist told me a lot about how projections work in people. Everyone (yes, everone) has gone through somewhat traumatic experiences in the process of growing up, and although some of those are much more dangerous to the psyche people still try to re-enact those experiences in their daily life all the time. She told me that a sure-fire way to find out if you're projecting your own traumas at a situation is to ask yourself if you see more than one alternative to deal with it. If not, you got a high chance that you're re-enacting the traumatic events in your life right now, hoping they will change (and thus allow healing) but usually (since it's on a sub-conscious level) disallowing the situation to take a course which will be able to heal some of our hurt. I kind of knew about the process before theoretically, but for the last 5 days now I've accidentally been going so deep in my own projections with my gf that I thought there was no other option than to leave her, repeating my own traumatic childhood experiences once again. I'm very lucky she's amazing as shit and she guided me through to the truth of my illusions, or else I would have left her without the intention of ever coming back, feeling deeply hurt by what she never actually did.

    Probably the worst case that can happen to you is if you fall into re-enacting your traumas AND you're an empath because then you'll additionally borrow the traumas from others as well, which can make it almost impossible to see through those illusions you create.

    I don't know you but guessing from what you're writing it could be that by creating this friendly atmosphere your co-worker has established a family-environment, by being the team-leader he has sort of a autority over you which makes him a nice target for mum/dad-projections and since you wrote you want him to think highly of you but can't concentrate when he's around you it would be likely you have some sort of unresolved family history relating to that. Mind though that especially if traumatic experiences are very hurting, you might not have a conscious memory of them because you have separated the experience from yourself to survive back then. Merely attempting to re-access the memory has a chance of triggering the hurt and pain and if you aren't in an environment that helps you channel this energy out you will probably just re-traumatize yourself. It doesn't have to be a professional psychologist or therapist to help you, but if what I'm guessing is the case you might feel the need to express emotions that can be very hurtful for people who love you because they won't have the experience to separate your condition and your projections from what is real between you and them. It can still be done, but it's difficult without someone who really knows what he's doing.

    Jester
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  3. #3
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    @Ij is this one situation where you say it should not be analized because it gets worse? What's your input then? I live it almost daily so the answer cannot be, it comes with expirience.
    No. This is something for which you should seek a practical solution asap. (Explain to company nurse or higher-up boss about person making you distracted, and wanting to move to another desk.)
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  4. #4
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    Hmm. I have been in the same class as the guy i was in love with for 4 years.. and eventually.. you learn to just.. let it go. what made it easier for me was to look up front, not in the direction of him during class.

    To keep my focus on what was in front of me, and on that stuff alone. It took some time to get used to it, but it helped. What also helped was to just make contact with the guy and then feel like the period of contact was DONE. Ofcourse this was more on a romantic level than a friendship/emotional level, but I think the basics remain the same.

  5. #5
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    Explain to company nurse or higher-up boss about person making you distracted, and wanting to move to another desk.

    Here it gets even more stupid. I could never do that.

    In this year the guy was in an open conflict with a female co-worker which worked with him for 6 years. She suddenly started to hate him and wasn't also able to concentrate around him. She said she just does not feel free around him. She said she is always different when he is around and makes herself small.

    She started a hard mud fighting over several months where at the endrun the team leader went from offender to victim. I almost felt sorry for him. This woman really gave him one punch after another. Now she left our team and joined another. But first after
    employee organization made a cut and said a dicision needs to be felled. Else they would propaply still fighting.
    I always backed him up during the fight. Or better I always tried to be diplomatic were believing that we find a solution where we all happy again.
    You may see now how stupid it looks now when I say I'm sorry I cannot work around you. You distract me.


    but if what I'm guessing is the case you might feel the need to express emotions that can be very hurtful for people who love you because they won't have the experience to separate your condition and your projections from what is real between you and them. It can still be done, but it's difficult without someone who really knows what he's doing.
    One theory I came up with is that I have problems with authorities because I never respected my parents authority. From the age of 13-18 I only did what I waned. I once made a post where I offered that I smoked weed heavily in that time. My parents found out some day and since this day we had several really "traumatic" beefs where I screamed in their faces that I hate them and shout some really hard insults.

    Meanwhile with my family I dont have a real problem. Years went down the river and now I have a more or less good connection with them. They just annoy me sometimes but in general it's fine. With one exception: I feel my mum can just not let me go. I dont know if that is healthy.
    For example she still sees me as the kid that needs to be protected and cannot take care of himself.
    After my parents were visiting my flat last time, my father told me afterwards that my mum cried because I didnt cleaned the flat good enough.
    She always speaks in the "we" frame. We need to find a new flat for you. She is sticking her nouse in things she shouldnt care anymore. I'm old enough. She tries to hide it but I also get that information from my father. LoL for example my father is saying to me I should clean better because she has the beef at home afterwards.

    But back to the original theory. Because of the disrespect for my parents authority it could be the case that I now have a hard time around authorities.

    Another thing is that a few month ago I was sitting with my parents at the table and we shared some stories about our history. My father told me that he still remembers that at one day in my youth I was laying down on the kitchens floor trying to hide myself fucking afraid that he beats me. I totally forgot that beef situation. This could be one of the traumatic expiriences...

    However I really need to talk about that with my therapist. I think that's a better place for such topics. (Even I feel a real pick up artist should not have such problems.)

  6. #6



    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    However I really need to talk about that with my therapist. I think that's a better place for such topics. (Even I feel a real pick up artist should not have such problems.)
    I'm sorry to disagree on the last line. Everyone has their issues, only most people don't even realize they have them because they have never been in a situation where they experienced a state of feeling and experiencing differently. A therapist (if it's a good one) might be a fitting partner to work these things through though.

    If your mother has troubles "letting you go" that could fit to the situation with your coworker. If he's at least somewhat empathic he can probably sense how you feel towards him and might not know what to do about it either, a situation your mother might experience as well towards you. Letting go of children in a healthy way for both sides seems to be one of the most difficult parts of parenthood (I am not a father yet, but from what I've heard).

    About 3 years ago I was in Brazil and I met some German guys there with which I met regularily. Among them was one really weird guy, let's call him P. Everywhere he went to, people would feel uncomfortable just by being around him and try to find an excuse to leave him without seeming all too stupid about it because nobody could really pinpoint what it was that made everyone flee him socially. He wasn't threatening at all, nor really ugly or disgusting or something, he just had this weird repelling aura about him. Since in spite of the repelling effect I somehow took an interest in him because I could sense he was really lonely, one night I took his hand, guided him to some secluded space and told him that for no reason I can put my finger on, I do feel repelled by his existence, and that I've observed how the others feel as well, only they never tell it to his face, and how I do feel sorry for him and would like him to experience his social life differently. I do remember very clearly how thankful he was that I told him directly because he knew and felt all his life but no one ever bothered to respect him enough to tell him upfront. I didn't keep in contact with him (as with most people I met back then and there) but I trust this one conversation might have helped him tremendously.

    I believe there's a very high chance your coworker does experience what is happening between him and you as well, only perhaps computed through his own internal experiences. In my life I've found a general rule to be true, which is that if a situation is unclear between people, if those people feel well they will fill up the unclearness with beneficial believes, if they feel bad they will fill up the unclearness with dangerous believes. So if your connection with someone isn't working out too well, it's usually better to establish very clear communication so the opportunities of filling up unclear parts with fear and anger are less. If you feel good with each other, less clarification is needed because the other will fill up the open space with believes of awesomeness that might work even better for you than the truth.

    Jester
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    I'm sorry to disagree on the last line. Everyone has their issues, only most people don't even realize they have them because they have never been in a situation where they experienced a state of feeling and experiencing differently.
    Hey, I want to talk a bit more about that. I think here I get to a point where I really need your help to get my subjective reality in a healthy place.

    Here is the thing: One part of myself is thinking that If I'm getting a pua all my problems are gone. And also If im becoming a pua I dont need to work. That's how I'm building so much pressure. The stubborn and childish thought "No I need to be a pua- all problems gone- nice lifestyle- lot of bitches-" But in this vision is no work included.

    Well I was reading my first pua book with the age of 14 or 15. I can remember one time where I was telling one that I dont need to work because I find girls who will give me money or something.......

    However I hope You see my problem here. I think it's some kind of escape mechanism.

    Additional:
    I sometimes argue with myself if I'm a pua or not. Do you see/label yourself as pua? I know it's weird but I think you cannot be developer and pua at the same time.

  8. #8



    I don't view myself as a pickup-artist, I'm more like an explorer of the human condition. Writing and reading stuff here, discussing alot with friends and experimenting myself has tought me quite a bit about what I'd call the "source code" of human interactions. You know, like any form of human relationship could be viewed like a computer program. You can make use of certain programs and experience the advantages or disadvantages of them, or you can try to learn to program in the languages they are written, try to understand why they are programmed that way, which needs did they try to fulfill. And then re-program so the needs you find in yourself and others can be met even better. I'm not discarding everything there is per se or think it "beta" or whatever, I know many people who are quite happy with the programs provided to them by society. Those models don't fit my needs well though, so I had to create my own ones at some point. Took me quite a while, and I'm still on that journey, hacking almost every day to make it work. But relationship-wise, I feel quite happy at the moment, with a girlfriend I have since about 1,5 years ago, a secondary woman I met 0,5 years ago and the freedom to hook up with any other women I might want to hook up with. I don't really pride myself on being able to fuck a few hundred women or on being able to create a beautiful seduction process for them. What I do pride myself on somehow is that I developed the ability to sense which women are into me and would make sense hooking up with because they will somehow enrich my life (which is very different than them just being DTF). Over the years I developed kind of a calmness about the whole thing: things will happen when they are ready to and when I allow them to develop, one doesn't need much knowledge or technique, really, it's more about letting go of the things that hinder you, like pessimistic believes and traumas.

    I'm not advocating the journey of becoming a PUA (whatever that means to you) cannot be a worthwhile one for you, but I do think that "if only I could become this and that, all my problems will be gone" is kind of unrealistic. It could be a milestone for you (although then I'd advise you to be way more specific on your goal descriptions), but it will only be one of many others to come. After being together with my girlfriend, I met another woman back there which I really connected with, but since I was moving far away from my gf for work reasons, I realized the timing wouldn't be right to create more insecurity. About half a year later, when we had both become more accustomed to living apart but feeling secure about it too, I first kissed another woman and told my gf. About half a year later again, I met my secondary woman and told my gf, realizing it is indeed possible with her to love this way. About the same time, she would start an affair with another guy as well, fearing deeply (because of past experiences) that I would freak out and leave her, and although we sometimes have a hard time dealing with our past experiences on the topic, we're quite alright still. Last weekend I met another woman I've known for a long time and felt a lot of attraction there. I was with my secondary woman at the time so it would have been rude to hook up with her, plus her boyfriend was like 2m away, but it was funny because my secondary woman told me later on that the other woman and her boyfriend lead an open relationship and that it would have been quite possible to arrange something then. Guess I will when I meet her again. There's no "doorstep" after which you'll just "get it" or something, it's a process with set-backs and breakthroughs. There's no ritual where people include you into some "secret society of PUAs".

    PUA itself (although not very well defined) is a model handed to you by society. If it fits your actual needs perfectly, go for it! If it only partly fits your needs, take whatever you can use and create the relationships you truly care for. It can be hard at times, and be actual work, but so is any other kind of relationship if you truly care for people. Building the kinds of relationship you want does help you to focus and spend less energy on building something you don't really care for though. It's also untrue (at least in my experience) that you have to first learn all there is about being a PUA before you can start experimenting (a type of thinking which is also abundant in the working world), it's simply not true. It's important to try to understand why people act a certain way because it can help you understand the needs to be met behind the systems (like, mono relationships offer a sort of security feeling, societal appreciation, some advantages in terms of law/finance, they are easier to explain, ...) so you don't forget anything important building your own systems, but that's it. If you can offer a type of relationship that is superior in fulfilling your needs and that of the other affected, it is very easy to convince someone of it. My secondary woman for example was quite against building a kind of relationship at all with me, really (she wanted it to stay a ONS), but since what I offered was so much more valuable to her we've been seeing each other a lot for the last few months and she's begun to trust in me on a very deep level even knowing that I still visit my gf and will probably hook up with other women as well from time to time. The more authentic you are, the more authentic other people around you feel allowed to be.

    And lastly: there is no breakthrough learning without undergoing the learning/healing cycle, which always includes if not hard work then at least utter frustration. Sorry man, no way around that, neither for me, you or anyone else. What I've learned I've learned by repeatedly suffering through major heartbreak, loss, death of my mother, being fired in several jobs, moving to the other end of the world, paying for my own mistakes until I got almost no money left and was almost forced to live on the streets, illness, and much more. Yet I once took the sacred vow that I would discover the full scope of the human existence, and whatever bad happened to me, it has in the end enriched my life in ways I cannot articulate in words. You're probably scared of what might happen, as is anyone, and it's a sign of psychological health that you are, but don't let yourself be stopped by fear. Feel it, acknowledge it, and then babystep past it. Yes, baby-step. Don't jump from a cliff simply because you read somewhere you have to to get rid of your fears. If you do this right you'll never get rid of your fears, they'll be there to accompany you, guide you, so you can feel your way. There's a saying that goes like "If you want to go far, go slowly", and it's very true. Move slowly, babystep your way out of the illusion in your head that it cannot be done. Don't join the myrads of people who never start, though. Start. Today. Or set a starting date, write it down somewhere, tell it to someone else, and do not let any excuse divert you from starting at that very specific time. Reduce the first goal to an almost nothing if you must, but do not allow yourself to not start. Create a binding contract with yourself stating the next goal and the exact date whenever you have completed one. If you fail, reconsider if the goal was appropiate, set a new date and go at it again until you succeed.

    Jester
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  9. #9
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    Hey guys, I need to reanimate that thread. Today was my first day after the christmas holidays and I had the same expirience again.
    I have some thoughts in mind:

    1. ijjji wrote in this thread: http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...l=1#post179323

    -Excess introspection is simply a lack of things like engagement, action, employment, tasks, hobbies, activities, etc etc.. 'thought fixing' only makes it worse.
    The engagement is probably a thing here. I just not be up for it anymore. Being at work and going through the process again and again is just annyoing for me. I dont know what was there first. The lack of engagement or the problems.


    2. I feel it's weird but I realized that I try to solve my problems with pu strategies. Lately I read sixty years of challenge and here in the forum.
    And today I thougth a lot:
    Just talk less and dont break the tension and it will get better. When he talkes he is qualifying to me not me. Dont discuss on a personal level. you can say everything as long as you dont attack ad hominem. Dont try to avoid it. Dont go into micro avoidance. Ask questions It is okay to fail. If you dont ask questions you stay dump.

    3.This flood of thoughts leads me to a question which I wanted to ask days ago but didnt find good reason for it:
    How do you guys know when you are fearing something? What process do you expirience when you fearing something or when you expirience anxiety? I ask this because I meanwhile get the feeling that I feel fear/anxiety and dont label it as such emotion. I even dont recognise it.Instead I just ask myself whats wrong now and try to fix it by thought fixing. When I re-read the 2. Point I would tent to think that I just expirience fear around my team leader and try to make it go away.

    4. Two more points:

    a) I came up with the thesis that I build up weird obstacles which are preventing me from working efficently. The obstacles are the mental problems I create or have. The reason for this could be some fear of failure. How can I find out if this is true and the real reason for my suffering?

    b) Jester, as I re-read the thread I came across the statement:
    She told me that a sure-fire way to find out if you're projecting your own traumas at a situation is to ask yourself if you see more than one alternative to deal with it
    When reviewing the situation it tends to fit into the pattern. I feel I have no other option then trying to solve the problem.


    5. A complete other viewpoint:
    Maybe the hole stress is produced just by the fact that I really need to ask questions. I have questions. Thinking about the statement "you have to ask questions else you stay dumb" (by sixty) made me realise that I have a lot of questions.
    Is it okay to chill a bit in the buero? Or do I always need to give 150% even I feel I need a break. How much talking in the buero is okay?
    How does the others feel while we are silent and working on our tasks? Does it feel weird for them too?
    I always have the urge to say something or to break the tension!! Can the otheres completely ignore everywhone in the room and act as they are alone ? Do the others also talk to themselve when everything everyone is silent?

    I hope you guys can give me some help here. Dont know how to solve the problem atm.

  10. #10



    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    How does the others feel while we are silent and working on our tasks? Does it feel weird for them too?
    I always have the urge to say something or to break the tension!! Can the otheres completely ignore everywhone in the room and act as they are alone ? Do the others also talk to themselve when everything everyone is silent?

    I hope you guys can give me some help here. Dont know how to solve the problem atm.
    People are very different in what they need. I for example don't like being alone for all too long, I enjoy it if people are in a room with me and I know they are there, but for some tasks like writing I need to be by myself else I cannot concentrate too well. It's not that nobody can be around, I just don't like to be required to focus on someone else when I'm writing. I know others who absolutely need other people around them so they can "function" properly. The most extreme case was an old female friend of mine I stopped having contact with about 1,5 years ago because she was very extreme in a way: probably for some childhood trauma thing she would be freaking out if nobody was around her and she could hear nobody. She did solve it a little by constantly listening to music when no one was around but it was annoying as hell anyway because she required focus 100% of the time. I don't know if she was talking to herself, but she may have without me noticing.

    About always giving 150% at work: If I'm working at something I'm really interested in, I usually enter "freak mode" and will not stop until I had a breakthrough experience, but it's a personal way of working, not something I see as an expectation towards me from someone else. I've once read a very brilliant quote of someone whose name I cannot remember, and it went pretty much like this: "If you need your employees to be heroes to sustain your organization, your organization skills really suck". No one can give 150% of the personal average output forever. You can be 50% better than your coworkers and if that is your average capability it's possible (although you can run into problems with jealous coworkers like I did a lot), but don't overexert yourself long-term. It made me wake up on the way to a hospital about 2 years ago and you wouldn't want to copy my experience, really

    Jester

    P.S.: If you're re-enacting your traumas and you realize it, it's a first little step to overcoming them, but I must say I experienced dissociation and possible re-traumatisation 3 times in my life (as far as I remember) and I was lucky that at least in the 2nd and 3rd occasion, someone who knew about this stuff was by my side to guide me through. It was horrible during the experience and I thought I was going to die emotionally and psychologically, but the people around me helped me through somehow and I survived them feeling much stronger now. I don't know if you can planfully orchestrate those experiences though. I guess this is what a therapist ultimately is for, but you'll have to find a good one or you'll run a chance of re-traumatisation which will only bury the real causes deeper making them harder to trigger the next time you'll try.
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