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  1. #41
    Member Impulse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sase View Post
    No derail meant, Impulse. What I meant to say is: All your points in the OP are valid. (And irrelevant to seduction.) Yes, makeouts will raise value, jealousy, hornieness, testosterone levels, confidence, they are fun, etc, etc. (And they can easily cost you the lay.) It's still high=school stuff, though. At 31 women will expect something else from you. But if that's what you're into, then go kiss them, Bud! I'm rooting for you.
    Everything makes sense in context. My experience aligns with Skills'. I rarely make out unless the bed is in sight. At the same time I can tell you that making out while dancing with a woman is the most erotic form of foreplay you can do in public. (Hidden context: A woman that is in love with you and which you are sleeping with regularly.)
    None of this will help you, though. What is your goal? Based on your writings my advice to you still stands: get a girlfriend. It's the fastest way you'll learn about women, and the most sex you'll have in the shortest amount of time.
    Nice post, yeh my main objection with skills and what he wrote was I was on the dancefloor last night (thats sunday) and I just felt so horny thinking about all the ripe pickings, like I felt I could have made out all over the place. It just seemed to have such an open and sleazy fuck fest vibe, and I wanted to jump right in :P :P

    There were a lot of asian guys groping chicks left and right too and the women were loving it, giggling all over the place and shit...it was a whorehouse man

    Skills as a pro to kinda knock making out and the fun that comes with that just didn't seem right

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosy
    So I'm not a regular and I'm inexperienced?

    See what I mean about this rude nonsense?
    LMAO, I wasnt meaning you in particular or saying anyone was inexperienced, what I meant is that its revisiting an old theme which experienced posters would have covered already, so they're kinda like meh, nothing new here. So yeh, it probably would have been better to frame it as:

    Lets revisit some basics to make sure i have my bases covered...instead of a me vs you frame like you said (btw, I do some copywriting too so thats probably why that clickbait stuff is coming in :P :P)

    Quote Originally Posted by cosy
    But, its just short sighted because, you actually cannot gain more skill than someone by perception shifts, so all you win is an illusion and then that illusion makes you complacent, and you lose in the long term
    Now we're getting somewhere! This is the money point and what ive been trying to say to you - its what I meant in the other thread by all this mindset bashing and realisations/statements - it doesnt actually do anything. A shift in perception will do very little when im on the middle of the dancefloor with some chicks shaking their ass, or when I see 2 chicks at the side of the bar checking me out

    What will help me on the dancefloor is getting horny, my propensity to get horny, go with my emotions, be ballsy and be fluid in my brain (for lack of a better expression) - taking the handbrakes off basically. So what skills is saying about makeouts kinda seemed like sour grapes to me

    And in those situations my ability to act freely and in the way I want ultimately and surely comes down to my brain programming - this is why im saying im a hardcase..yeh you might say thats self-indulgent, but I know my situation..its a brain programming thing. My self-construct (the psychological term) simply keeps me back from releasing the handbrake, with knock on effects on all aspects of my game. Which is why I still lack any major consistency

    And through my psychological research ive figured out a few exercises that work - now its just about consistently applying those. Last time I did that I went from 0 lays that month to 5 makeouts total and 1 good lay with a solid 9..so these exercises do work. How the fuck I got sidetracked is a huge story of itself..ive had to change massive parts of my life to get out of pretty tough situations

    I guess im good at getting distracted, or have some shitty things in my programming which keeps me in self-sabotaging patterns

    Shit like:

    Me vs you mentality
    Obsessiveness and lack of self-control (why I probably post too much here)
    Lack of self-awareness at times maybe? But in field i would say im pretty much aware, im very good in person, im very likeable id say
    Wrong associations (negative people and stuff)
    Ego and playing the guru
    Putting my focus in the wrong things

    Quote Originally Posted by cosy
    The better strategy is to build upon a competitive framework, like "I will rediscover bits and pieces of meaning"
    Like yes its been covered but it can always do us good to cover it AGAIN
    I get you, if id termed it "lets re-cover some basics to help me along" that would have worked better..so its an eloquence thing we're talking here...

    Quote Originally Posted by cosy
    In this post he just utterly fails to face it cuz hes too hyper??
    I dunno its weird
    Funny you say that, Im not really that hyper in real life, though I probably was a few years ago when I used to use hypnosis regularly and things like subliminals, thinking it was the key to confidence (it isn't btw..confidence comes from actual consistent results, not just some inner brain thing. Sticking to that will just make someone more delusional, which it did for me), and that confidence was what I needed to get better with women (again, far too arbitrary to be useful. Competence on the basics I feel is more important, as well as having an even head that can learn properly and take in all criticisms from others, to really properly learn)

    That's kinda taken me a while to figure out but im getting there

    I guess the hyperness is just because im sort of a quick person to react (learned that from business, write quickly, respond quickly, do quickly) - its obviously coming across here

    Plus Im typing too much here....as I say it would be a good idea to post a little less for me so yeh, a few of you guys are right.

    I guess I come to post on here to kinda sort my head out and find it as a sort of release...and it helps me concentrate on the things I really need to, like:

    My fundamentals
    My psychological bullshit which needs fixed

    Also, I think im kinda addicted to "mental assurances" from other posters. Its as if I doubt my own knowledge in seduction on a subconscious level, whereas new understandings and "realisations" arent really needed for me at all.

    Bottom line its a neurotic obsession - to articulate thoughts from the field and over-think stuff, whereas its probably better for me to just concentrate on the exercises I need to do (self-construct ones in particular) to get those handbrakes off permanently

    And anything else on that "perception shift" front is just all bullshit, though it can be useful in fine tuning certain aspects of game, so long as at least consistent basic competency is there in field (and which im still lacking).

    -------

    To me basic competency is:

    - Being able to approach and talk to the women I want instead of bailing or chickening out too much (I still do this far too often, its something I really need to handle and im taking the steps to sort this, not through AA drills or anything, but through self-construct exercises..field tested to work, though it takes a while to get a hang of).

    Hook points have been improved massively because im using sex talk game...before I honestly struggled to hook conversations consistently because I was in too much of a free flow state that id bore myself talking about something I wasnt fully interested in (whereas sex you can talk about for hours)

    - Looser emotional states in field - which is why I think lots of makeouts can help me. I normally head out about 9pm, hit a few bars first to see whats kicking about. A few makeouts here and there can be good warmups for the real hotties later on

    ^and from here, everything else follows....


    Quote Originally Posted by PE
    You're in the field man. . your field work sounds like its at least somewhat matching your posting, and honestly its the guys going through the shit fighting things out that drive a lot of good discussion.

    The word for you is conscientious: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/conscientious - "characterized by extreme care and effort." "Do the right thing." (not morally or out of social duty, but do the right thing that needs to be done to accomplish whatever your goal is, so you don't waste your own and everyone else's time on a misfire because you weren't careful or aware.)

    Just be a little more self-aware and conscientous man when it comes to starting new threads, put a little more care into them, be a little less "impulsive." (your name is fitting.) Like, this whole sidetrack wouldn't have happened if you had set up the OP just a little differently, and your goal of a clean on-topic discussion would have more likely been possible.
    Alright, noted

    As I say, I think posting less will help me a bit too..ive got enough things to work on for the moment that I should concentrate my energy on getting those down.

    The main problem with that is this forum is like a hardcore neurotic obsession - you just want to keep posting and I kinda lack self-control on these things. Its like someone has to take the playstation controller away from me, I wont do it myself...

  2. #42
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 2 votes.

    -OP tries to discredit makeouts, which is good. But rather than meaning nothing, they are actually BAD..
    -OP likes to go for the makeout early on, in public. Lo and behold, he reports makeouts mean nothing. Well guess what:
    -For info: Early makeouts is probably the biggest and most common rookie mistake.
    -I paraphrase: Early makeouts (especially in public) PREVENT LAYS FROM HAPPENING.

    (And before the ultra-goodlooking guys start to object; I KNOW, you guys get away with breaking a lot of rules that normal guys simply cant get away with. So stay off my case.)
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  3. #43
    Member Kit's Avatar
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    at college ijjjji's early make-out rule doesn't apply as far as I know. just depends on the person and context

  4. #44
    Dance Floor Seduction Skills360's Avatar
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    Skills as a pro to kinda knock making out and the fun that comes with that just didn't seem right

    pro masturbator, i ain't a pro, just lol!
    Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

    www.dancefloorseduction.com










  5. #45
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 3 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    -OP tries to discredit makeouts, which is good. But rather than meaning nothing, they are actually BAD..
    -OP likes to go for the makeout early on, in public. Lo and behold, he reports makeouts mean nothing. Well guess what:
    -For info: Early makeouts is probably the biggest and most common rookie mistake.
    -I paraphrase: Early makeouts (especially in public) PREVENT LAYS FROM HAPPENING.

    (And before the ultra-goodlooking guys start to object; I KNOW, you guys get away with breaking a lot of rules that normal guys simply cant get away with. So stay off my case.)
    I could not find the post were me and you had a huge fight about make outs... anyways at the end you had a good conclusion....

    My take it comes down to interactions.... is not the same an instant make out for fun/validation... vs a make out with a solid interaction were the girl is really into you and ready to go...

    I have also lost women by not making out, they assume "he is not into me" or "he is gay" lolol...


    I like cosy explanation the best when it comes to this...
    Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

    www.dancefloorseduction.com










  6. #46
    Member thecostofsuccess's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 4 votes.

    In biz, you look ahead and "call" what is a good move before you do it, you don't do that in seduction impulse
    It doesn't have that same smooth effect of knowing what you are doing it just exposes that you have no clue
    You have to stop "calling it as you see it" and recognise seduction doesn't work like that
    The moment you "call it as you see it" is the moment you assuredly don't get wtf is going on, cuz you trap yourself into one move or behaviour, and that just gets obliterated

    In sed, you have to prepare your inner likely reaction to events and take the shitty parts off them so the vibe is good
    Never plan out ahead with some dominant assumption, thats just... not going to work man, not ever
    Mainly cuz it leaves you exposed, and girls will pick on it as an undesireable feature that makes them uncomfortable
    They'll freeze up and cut you out and you'll wind up twiddling your thumbs looking stupid



    It is interesting how being a biz guy first seems to utterly retard common sense in regards to women...
    Maybe cuz biz has often been built by insecure men who aim to control womens options by force and coersion/religion etc
    So please consider that your biz stuff is just likely to trigger asd, because it is the whole reason girls have asd in the first place, dudes trying to control everything they do.

    You gotta deprogram some of this stuff man, or you are going to keep thinking biz moves are smart in seduction contexts which is just not true

    You gotta learn to rebel, and be a bit anti-system and anti-power-structure
    Or you will have too much of a stick up your ass to figure anything out with common reason/sense




    Anyways on the topic
    Its just that dudes tend to act retarded when they assume kissing leads to the next steps like clokwork... its a tedious expectation for a guy to persist on. Its better if he knows a kiss is just kissing, and keeps his composure regarding other things right after.

    I mean, guys that get it wrong tend to create an overreaching feel, and girls have to pull back and take stock of his reaction, and by that point he looks suspicious and probably is.

    So the idea is, you put less presure on kissing and its more spontaneous and less of a fuss sexually, so then you naturally lead into other things with a good pace and the girl doesnt feel crammed into something but just follows her natural intrigue.


    This btw can be extrapolated into "don't kiss" but what it actually means is don't make a big deal out of it, and if that leads to you not even kissing her, that is perfectly accurate too because it minimises chances of her changing her mind (kisses make girls ponder things, and think less straight forward)

    So I mean, straight up no kissing can be weird, but if it comes from not thinking kissing is a big deal, its maybe even good
    Like maybe ups your chances by 10% or so? Cuz it shows you aren't obssessive and that you can handle multiple possibilities without a big sweat

    Cuz it just makes it neater.
    Its like in chess, you don't just take every piece you can, you just let it be there, there is no rush



    I'd say that as a rule, if you kiss her THE FIRST CHANCE YOU GET, and its not fucking cool as hell
    The girl goes into cruise mode, and just tunes you out

    Its better to build and build till her mindset switches from cruising to "whoa!"
    And if shes in whoa mode... then... well... suggest another location

    Depends on the guy, depends on your intention, but there is a dynamic here that bears noticing
    If only cuz a lot of guys LUNGE after everything and need to learn to cool it and be prepared for sex mentally rather than get distracted in this and that

  7. #47
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 2 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    at college ijjjji's early make-out rule doesn't apply as far as I know. just depends on the person and context
    -Yep. If the context says "TOO EARLY", then its bad. OTOH, if the context says "this is a slumber party where everyone's doing it, so go ahead or you will be the odd one out" then obviously there never is any 'early'..
    -Hmmm, I actually need to stop offering so many explanations for various mistakes, when EVERYTHING could actually be said in some sort of singular sentence. Something along the lines of:

    Any escalating action, should only come when there is a persistent mutual vibe causing a craving for it.

    (Lol I can think of 10 common mistakes that falls under this, but most of you know what I talk of, so I'll stop yapping here.)
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  8. #48
    Member pureevil's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    IMO it comes down to the face that makeouts (extended kissing sessions) diffuse sexual tension while giving attention, and seem to have little correlation with horniness. So they largely do not work for you, those are three "imma fuck you tonight" boxes that don't get properly ticked.

    Now I can think of several times where I've planted the softest kiss a girl has ever received, and then PULL BACK and don't give anymore. This is NOT an extended makeout session though, the above BOOSTS sexual tension, gives just enough attention, and tends to boost horniness. That ticks all the "imma fuck you tonight" boxes.

    Kissing in general though is not a go-to in my seduction arsenal.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecostofsuccess View Post
    In biz, you look ahead and "call" what is a good move before you do it, you don't do that in seduction impulse
    It doesn't have that same smooth effect of knowing what you are doing it just exposes that you have no clue
    You have to stop "calling it as you see it" and recognise seduction doesn't work like that
    The moment you "call it as you see it" is the moment you assuredly don't get wtf is going on, cuz you trap yourself into one move or behaviour, and that just gets obliterated

    In sed, you have to prepare your inner likely reaction to events and take the shitty parts off them so the vibe is good
    Never plan out ahead with some dominant assumption, thats just... not going to work man, not ever
    Mainly cuz it leaves you exposed, and girls will pick on it as an undesireable feature that makes them uncomfortable
    They'll freeze up and cut you out and you'll wind up twiddling your thumbs looking stupid

    It is interesting how being a biz guy first seems to utterly retard common sense in regards to women...
    Maybe cuz biz has often been built by insecure men who aim to control womens options by force and coersion/religion etc
    So please consider that your biz stuff is just likely to trigger asd, because it is the whole reason girls have asd in the first place, dudes trying to control everything they do.

    You gotta deprogram some of this stuff man, or you are going to keep thinking biz moves are smart in seduction contexts which is just not true

    You gotta learn to rebel, and be a bit anti-system and anti-power-structure
    Or you will have too much of a stick up your ass to figure anything out with common reason/sense
    Yeh I hear ya :P I guess spending long hours working for years on end kinda shifts your whole perception a bit...

    Ive recently toned down on the hours and outsourcing as much as I can to free up time..so I can spend an hour a night just chilling in a bar and winding down

    ------------

    Here's the thing with making out...a lot of the sluttiest chicks (for lack of a better way of explaining it) want a fuck fest and tongue down quickly. They're there to pull and hook up.

    Ive seen girls makeout and leave with guys right away, so its simply not true that make outs generally do not correlate to sex...it depends on your style of game, the night in question and even the venue. Some venues have a reputation for being pickup joints. Generally you see tongue downs happening and people leaving right away together. Other venues not so.

    Also if your out in a club on new years eve for instance where everyone is getting drunk and feeling horny, then again, makeouts are the way to go. You make out with the chick you're interested in, and then that prepares her and you for the next stage, which is sex. But obviously no one is saying thats a golden rule. Same can be true of other nights, like Sunday nights here which brings out a different crowd, or certain theme nights we have in town - all of these bring out a certain crowd and a certain vibe that makes makeout+extraction more conducive.

    So makeouts themselves dont get the lay and I agree, but they are part of the process many times.

    A lot of the time makeouts can also happen spontaneously with no effort. I could be standing there doing nothing and suddenly be making out with a chick who I then leave to have sex with - has happened many times before.

    My virginity lay (when I was 20) actually happened like that - I was at the bar, chick came from behind and instant makeout there and then...no effort required whatsoever, I was in the right place at the right time. Ive had a few other lays like this where Im just standing around, girl comes up to me to talk, instant makeout and then extraction.

    If I suddenly deleted the makeout from the process (by not making out or making a rule to withhold it) those lays wouldnt have happened.

  10. #50
    Member thecostofsuccess's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 3 votes.

    Well like I said, passive removal of makeouts isn't really the suggestion here
    The concept is about reducing importance on the makeout so you aren't like "ooh this could lead to sex yaaay!"

    I mean, most women have a period before they choose to go to bed with a guy where they "take stock" of things
    Now a lot of the time they might seem on a happy train like "weeeeee!"
    But girls aren't just strolling about without thought regarding sex (I dunno it can be argued, it depends on where they are at, sometimes they are just blanking out all details to avoid pain)
    They usually have a spot where they reel themselves back in.

    If you maintain an assumptive frame of mind, the girl will definately think you are scetchy.
    I call it dog game. Where guys slobber on chicks and dry hump em, and then when she pulls back to get a good look at him he tucks his tail and hopes to get a pet.

    A friend of mine used to comment that "you are never a dog, even when you grind on a girl, its like with such style its obvious you are in control of it"
    Its the difference between being a girls groupie, and being her only ace.


    Yeah she can switch to any of the guys hounding her, but you make yourself the most quality hand.
    Shes not going to be able to tell if shes making out with you. Cuz to her, lips and a body is lips and a body, most guys don't fuck that up.

    So the crucial aspect is where she draws back and how you appear in the light when she flicks it on.


    Girls makeout process isn't complicated, they think like you think, "bing bang boom"
    There is no grand cmplicated thought pattern behind it, BUT
    There is one big difference between you and them

    They know before hand what their sex threshold likely is
    So they can let guys bash up against it and keep a steady mind
    Then they'll sanitise the interaction, cuz it short, politely imply you are fuckable but slip away (you get this a lot btw I can tell)

    So while you THINK you are affecting them, you are actually just accepting a limit
    And when she takes stock of you, ain't nothing going to change her mind from where it started (maybe she gets wrapped up in it, but maybe that was her intent, maybe not, you don't know)


    I dunno man, there are stages of game...
    Some guys only have access to dog game
    And if its all you got I say you use it
    BUT
    I don't suggest you say "this is the top! this is everything!"

    Like no... its not. There are plenty of things goinng on even within the situations you mentioned that you benefit from if you notice it.
    For example your "slutty girl" observation
    Well its not a type of girl, it is a particular moment in time where that girl is throwing some caution to the wind
    THERE ARE processes behind this backinng it up and predicting outcomes

    A friend of mine often says "its not like I'm swimming in alpha cock all the time like these guys seem to think"
    But most guys are like "heh, slutty chicks, derp!"

    No man, thats a shit attitude, cuuuuuz the girl will always go back to a state of sobriety at some point, and if you are beavis and butthead, shes going to do a double take and be like "and who the fuck exactly do you think you are" and peace out.



    I dunno, its easy to get caught up
    Girls even SUGGEST that you get caught up
    But its in your interest to remain sober minded enough to know their is a sober minded chick behind the controls of her seemingly out of control flow with the situation

    I mean, its meta
    So you won't see it initially or understand it easily or early on,
    AND girls won't exactly know what you mean by it either (cuz they don't think about it, they just routinely "take stock" and don't consider how it might affect a dude)

    I dunno, you can if you want, "get used" and be a playtoy
    Thats like, yeah, fine
    But you can also do it a bit more meta



    I call it the difference between wet game and dry game
    Wet game assumes you are influencing the universe with every energy choice, cuz it feels that way, but its downside is it actually isn't and it falls into preventable situatiions
    Dry game, when done right, creates a level of intellect while retaining a girls sexual interest, it AIMS to bring out her sober side, and to see through the preventable and work with the gils actual needs

    I think it is more skillful to use dry game, though initially easier to go in wet


    These days I think, wet is NOT serious, and it is just for kicks, because itll never improve your game or character as a man
    Dry game, its about fulfilment and getting what you feel is a good deal out of things without distraction

    Now, there is ALWAYS a connection, you can't do it 100% dry unless you are very familiar with it (so I personally don't suggest fully pulling back out of your initial wet game, but just complimenting it with some instances and moments of dry game in order to set up a road of improvement)

    Guys like teevs, he used to use a lot of wet game physically, but he'd always target the girls sober mind in his verbals,
    So he is a mixture of dry an wet

    Ijjjji, he does a lot of wet physical non talk moves, but he does dry things like vacuum, containment of his vibe, simplification


    I'm probably the driest, but I'm hugely capable of wet game,
    I just tend not to, relying on an understanding of a womans psychology and prefering to address her on her level

    I like that, cuz I get to talk and explore concepts of seduction and maximise my growth and inner fulfilment.


    Its up to the guy to determinne what he enjoys the most
    But be wary of assuming you don't like things you don't understand
    Dry aspects to your game, like a reduction on importance in certain typical escalation moves like numbers, kisses, etc can give you some perspective

    But I mean, it also might not depending on your situation, cuz you might just get instantly depressed without boobs pressing up against you
    And I hear you on that

    So its really up to the guy whether or not he can tolerate that level of exploration into his other abilities


    OFTEN guys that diiscover these new sides of themselves and new abilities are like HOW DID I EVER AVOID THIS
    And start to think "fuck I was being stupid not applying this all that time"
    So tend to exciteably stick with their new finding


    It isn't INCORRECT to go in wet, its just...
    Less effective long term. And get tiresome. And doesn't fully address all your needs.




    You can do it though, and everyone uses an aspect of it (even me)
    Its just not accurate to say everything is bullshit, when you actually don't know what it is and are just assuming they are deludedly telling you utter crap


    The good thing about many guys on here is, they have some depth in their own respective fields of competancy
    Thusly there is stuff to explore by asking each guy a question or observing his own partiular take on it

    It isnt necessary to have one uniform, montonous, hive mind
    You just need some courtesy and boom you are done

    Like maybe you want COURTESY regarding your entirely wet unhinged game :P
    But haha, you gotta have some humor about you too, you can't take a guy ragging on your game so serious ALL the time
    Sometimes you just let it be



    My guess is, you are just so new at interacting with dudes that are seducers you are all paranoid
    Like youll get shot from every angle
    Best way to avoid that is counter intuitive
    Just provide good discussions, don't go into ego battle mode

    Don't castrate ALL of your fire though,
    Its good
    Just don't lazily piss on dudes cuz you got a little booboo :P
    Or get bored
    You still gotta keep an eye on aggitating the shit outta guys who are here to openly discuss

    Btw, I dunno what your best move is in seduction is, I only know the right direction,
    So take it with a grain of salt... but also don't be too much of a dick, thats taxing :P
    Its a paradox, and its up to you to sort it not us

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