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  1. #21
    Member glow's Avatar
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    Awesome Ij - appreciated
    I like your hair, lets have sex

    Glows Log

  2. #22
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    Just maybe, it can help to have a map/chart of known human vibes.. I found lists of words that can describe a human:
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wor...jectives.shtml
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wordlist/adverbs.shtml
    -May still be a waste of time though.. since words are inherently weak..
    -"Talking about feelings, is like dancing about mathematics.."
    -And then there are all the vibes for which language lacks a word..
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  3. #23
    Member thecostofsuccess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    Just maybe, it can help to have a map/chart of known human vibes.. I found lists of words that can describe a human:
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wor...jectives.shtml
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wordlist/adverbs.shtml
    -May still be a waste of time though.. since words are inherently weak..
    -"Talking about feelings, is like dancing about mathematics.."
    -And then there are all the vibes for which language lacks a word..
    Yeah just dont worry about it too much, just do whatever you feel works best for you

  4. #24
    Member cactus eyes's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 2 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    Just maybe, it can help to have a map/chart of known human vibes.. I found lists of words that can describe a human:
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wor...jectives.shtml
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/wordlist/adverbs.shtml
    -May still be a waste of time though.. since words are inherently weak..
    -"Talking about feelings, is like dancing about mathematics.."
    -And then there are all the vibes for which language lacks a word..
    This struck me as a smoke screen.

    Almost a double-edged sword. Words are inherently weak Because they stem from the "unknown" source, and trying to label that source is a weak attempt of expressing something so Vast.

    The AEther, the unmanifest waiting to manifest... The mystic idea of ultimate possibility, UNTIL it is crystallized in word form. This is something I have been thinking about outside of PU, although like all skillsets and experiences everything intertwines to create a personal lattice of expression.

    Anyways, I mentioned that because after reading "words are weak," ideas of "possibilities" began to simmer below my "conscious" thoughts.

    So I can't describe them and solidify them as actionable advice. But the feeeeelings I got reading, words are inherently weak, were Yes words are weak, wait no they aren't... and a sort of see-saw balancing affect took place and loosened up the mud of my brain. Like a vibration, a tuning fork or something.

    This month in PU, for me, I've been seriously saying NOTHING for SO long in the "interaction" that there is no interaction. It is all unmentionable, the quick eye look here and there, a shoulder shrug, a cheeky smile with her as you both see something funny that no-one else sees and you glimmer in your eye and put that spark away building an internal fire of possibility.

    Then an approach, a PAIMAI type of something unrelated, the possibility of making or breaking the same tension that you and her feel, SO you do not talk about anything you feel. You talk around it. But there needs to be a crystallization of something, so I use a kino and a good lock of silent breathing together for a second and a good face to face eye stare of curiosity.

    Much to think about, or not think about on how to manifest something indescribable.


    Maybe vibes are like the wind, they come from "somewhere unbeknownst" to Most of those that feeel the effects, yet everyone can see the action and affects it has on the surrounding environment...

    edit: also this post by Cosy is really good http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...l=1#post180668
    In Ictu Oculi

  5. #25
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    -Good points CE! I realize I over-simplify quite often these days. Words CAN be amazing. The sky is the limit.
    -At the same time, they can oh so easily 'cheapen' what they are trying to describe.
    -This heaven and hell duality is probably why writing can be so much fun
    -Aaand then there is 'concept maturity'.. like if I said "Put on your best smile, and go greet the visitors!" most people would be able to DO that rather well!!
    -Indeed it was! Cosy is well versed with both vibes AND words! (As most authors have to be!)
    -The lists I posted links to are far too limiting btw! They dont account for things like "there was suddenly cold hard steel in her gaze".
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  6. #26
    Member cactus eyes's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    Dang I had written a rather long response and lost it.. this is really helping me conceptualize and visualize interactions so forgive me if I start rambling away from the topic.

    I had to look up "concept maturity" actually, but it yielded some great results. Mostly business jargon so bare with it, but one site had plenty on systems engineering and it was fairly relateable to PU. site was reqexperts.com

    But stuff like "“Doctrine of Successive Refinement” defined in the NASA Systems Engineering Handbook [NASA 1995] shown in *Figure 2." is fun and relatable to PU



    Anyways, one idea that popped into my head reading this thread, about the actualization of vibes, was in relation to drum chanting to get into a trance. Forgive the analogy.
    Similar, as if the experienced practitioner knows when to strike the drum, how hard,etc. etc. to induce the best trance.
    But someone who has never experienced a drum circle, or the trance induced, may not understand Why or How and instead mimic the motions until they internalize and understand the whole experience.

    We talk much about this idea, fake it til you make it type ideas.

    With vibes, perhaps it's like the drum circle and fake it til you make it as well, just much more difficult because crossing up a few channels could result in an "ugly color vibe" instead of a brilliant hue. Like a cuddle fish trying to be the color brown in front of a colorful reef.

    Vibes, as a collection of physical appearance, "repertoire," and physical actions is much easier to make actionable, than simply be vibe X or appear to vibe like Z. Maybe it would be, wear slacks, relax body posture, slowly speak if at all, use eyes sparingly but concisely, and that could be the beginning of a branch of vibes.

    Maybe vibes are more like different trees with individual fruits to bear. I'll be thinking about this a lot when I go out tonight actually.
    In Ictu Oculi

  7. #27
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    -Not to worry CE, this is a PHILOSOPHICAL thread to begin with.
    -Do not mistake my bullet-point writing-style as contempt for a more elaborate writing style (as some did before).
    -Im simply experimenting with this style of posting (and thinking).
    -I actually adore your drum trance analogy! I put a somewhat similar quote in my map thread, actually!
    -Trancelike vibes can be crazy powerful, if others can be made to 'understand' (join) your trance.
    -Back to Cosy 'bad vibes' post.. is it possible to do a 'blank' vibe?
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  8. #28
    Member Stargazer's Avatar
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    I find it weird that there would be confusion with the word itself since it's pretty well defined by the dictionaries: "a feeling that someone or something gives you" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vibe

    If producing a vibe by will was not doable there would be no actors. And to act really well you need to feel what you want to vibe, then it becomes like acting without acting, like Alexander Jason would put it. https://youtu.be/RS49gJ2eKrY?t=115

    I think vibe-mind maps are mostly useful for remembering and communicating vibes to others. What is the best way to produce the right feelings in field could be an entire topic by itself.

  9. #29
    Member thecostofsuccess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    -Not to worry CE, this is a PHILOSOPHICAL thread to begin with.
    -Do not mistake my bullet-point writing-style as contempt for a more elaborate writing style (as some did before).
    -Im simply experimenting with this style of posting (and thinking).
    -I actually adore your drum trance analogy! I put a somewhat similar quote in my map thread, actually!
    -Trancelike vibes can be crazy powerful, if others can be made to 'understand' (join) your trance.
    -Back to Cosy 'bad vibes' post.. is it possible to do a 'blank' vibe?
    Um, blank vibes, depends what you mean
    I assume you mean, free of shittiness, but neutral regarding positives

    Funny thing is, if you are free of shitty vibes, neutral vibes are better than neutral because a girl can forseeably work with you on it.
    So, you don't NEED to understand how to do vibes, cuz the girl will stimulate them in you.

    Thats what a lot of people don't get, if you try to create a powerful and alluring vibe, you can get it wrong if you don't know what you are doing
    But if you remove all shitty vibes, girls will know what they are doing and adjust you



    I mean, early on I had no idea how to use vibes, so I learnt by being vulnerable/innocent but bold
    It created blockages for any shitty ideas I might invent, so girls saw an opening to adjust my vibes and play with it
    Then I felt a bit manhandled so I used my wits to takecontrol of my own vibes, which I could then do cuz women had been mucking around with it

    This is why I often teach people to remove crappy vibes rather than push anything
    It is downhill cuz girls will help you, while if you arealways pushing, it is going to be uphill cuz girls will never help you feel different vibes until you understand them enough to do it on your own


    Oh also,
    I used to just erase bad vibes by predicting likely outcomes, I'd then adjust my thinking and reactions to not bother the girl
    I'd spend five minutes clearing out my crappy reactions, then go in
    This was pretty effective for me early on cuz I could do it in all sorts of ways
    I could take some big breaths and bolster myself
    I could stop myself being paranoid and clear my head
    I could look ahead to likely positive outcomes
    I could adjust my approach volume by cutting it down into smaller steps, and deal with each anxiety for each little step rather than all at once (move foot in closer, shift weight, look off to the side, touch her shoulder as if softly questioning, eye lock, beam smile, hold pause and then go into "heeey...") that way each detail didn't jump out at her too much cuz I was making sure it wouldn't
    I'd adjust the type of conversation when our eyes met, by doing a "holding pattern" type of gaze (just not weirding her out) until I felt like I could softly introduce a word or two without it being raspy or croaking


    So yeah, if you reach lack of shhitty vibes, you by nature will develop good vibes without needing to know it all before hand.
    The only problem is, removing them
    Cuz most of the times, shitty vibes come with shitty habits and attitudes


    I find that most guys don't have terminally shitty habits and attitudes, so you can always get him SOMEWHERE better with his vibe cuz he's willing to back up on a few things, or even reverse certain habits if it is explained well to him, you won't get him past the threshold he needs to really learn it all, but he'll get better (even if its only slight it#ll help him cuz girls will be more rrelaxed with him and that will accrue advantages over time and help him make slight breakthroughs)

    Some do, but mostly because they have resentment.
    And ime, some guys with resentment just don't want to let it go. This is the kind of guy who will really fuck vibes up and get them ass backwards.
    You can't teach those dudes.

    Generally though guys dont want to be resentful so you can get through to them.
    But typically, the resentment is cuz they want it all not a LITTLE improvement.
    Only problem is, to get it all you need to back your resentment up a LONG LONG way, until shitty vibes are GONE, before you can fully learn how to control a vibe.
    If you learn vibes by aggressive force, you don't really learn the substance of them, so cant embody them?


    Its like music, if a song is clambering, you dont just pour on more notes
    You break down those clambering notes into a simpler more expressable theme or feel
    Then you get the pacing just right, and start to add in little details that add delight



    In martial arts, when I was 8 years old, I couldn't block punches for shit
    So my teacher said "use smaller movements, just an inch, half an inch, no more"
    And suddenly I was never crazily out of position
    I instinctively adjusted my feet and used my body to lead the block like you'd cut with a sword, and boom, my little deflections were hard as steel

    Point being, reduction is how you develop good foundations


    Not passiveness, not oversimplification, but just learning to provide less resistance to better moves
    Then those better moves flow from you, and you are like, wow! Crap! I can do it!!!


    Like glow right now, hes fully discovering vibes, and at first, you might look at my comments to him as harsh
    Like "how the fuck can that help a guy!"
    But, you can start to see it is not controversial once you understand that, vibes develop in the absence of shittier ones (and if a guy isn't numb/defeated)

    The hardest part, is to get rid of those bad vibes when a guy is INCLINED to be passive or defeated
    Glow wasnt at all inclined to be passive, thats why now hes having a great fucking time learning about feminine energy and his own
    Pretty badass


    Anyways, point being, there is a difference between passive and reduction in shittiness
    Passive people only reduce their shittiness as a SHOW, in order to then get permission from others that they did good
    While guys that reduce shittiness, don't just hold it in, they try to make that change AUTHENTIC


    The reason that is a complicated task for some is complex... too complex to assume it can be addressed with word play... so I dunno about that bit

  10. #30
    Member COCPORN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    -Im drawing a small map of the various vibes regarded as attractive by our community.
    -And I had to really stop and think, when running into the cloud/cluster containing swagger, cool, chilled, confident, etc...
    -As Ive said ad infinum, telling yourself to feel a certain thing, is very fragile (backfire)..
    -So are we setting a trap for ourselves, by focusing on vibes?
    -Are they not much better than affirmations in this regard?
    -Or are they real actions, that you can immerse ('flow') yourself in without such 'fragility'?

    Ive seen that some show a resistance to the vibe concept, and Im suspecting that their dislike must come from a suspicion along these lines.
    And quite frankly, Im not 100% free from this worry myself. At least something to keep in mind if we proceed with this somewhat new-age'y methodology...

    (Im leaning towards putting '.Theory' style posts in off-topic from now on. I miss .Theory, but I also dislike having a lot of forums. Makes each one too thinly populated, I guess..
    Do you think its a good idea, or should KJ'y topics about PU go in general now?)
    I have never been able to "do" something that I don't "am".

    The huge failure of the pickup community is to "act", "see what I accomplish" and then "reduce to what I do into knowledge". When the reason for the accomplishment is not related to the action ("act"), but more often related to who does it. Which means that the "knowledge" gathered is more local than global.

    There is a very simple way to test this. Create a fake Tinder profile using my picture (or any supermodel, really), match with the same girl and say the same things.

    If you haven't done this, you might be absolutely floored by the difference in response. A match on Tinder isn't a match on Tinder.

    The idea of "faking it" is closer to this than you might think. You might be able to fake an emotion for a night. Or two. But it will decidedly burn you out. Your emotions are your compass, your ability to share them here is just a tiny and beautiful fragment of it.

    I would say that I am personally "confident" at this point. That's not to say that I'm "never nervous" or "emotionally over invest"; I certainly am and certainly do. But it happens seldom and the occurrences are few and far between. It comes from a single thing you cannot teach, and it is experience.

    Experience is something that cannot be taught. You can fake it and the benefits it gives with women who like experienced guys, but you cannot really have it without earning it.

    When you run into the cloud/cluster containing those descriptions, you are really running into the part of the community that doesn't understand that experience transfers really slowly in this medium. You need to do it. You need to let it consolidate.

    So anytime you get into a discussion that tells you "You just need to be confident" or "Just stay cool", you immediately know that the person writing has no actual teaching experience. People aren't confident (without experience) and people don't stay cool (without experience). BTW, I don't consider bootcamps teaching experience.

    You are setting a trap for yourself by focusing on vibes. It is like Michael Bay waking up one morning and focusing on food. Or an African street child (is that where they're poor now?) doing the same.

    Most pickup concepts might be true "from the top down". We used to refer to this as the "winner's perspective". It is easy to tell someone to "just be cool, man", when you are cool. It is really hard to have an emotional turmoil and cool down because you're told to.

    The winner's perspective is infectious, because all winners see it the same way, at the same time not attributing their success to the real hero: Experience.

    The authorities around you will tell you to "cool down" and "just do it". Because they've done it, so, so many times. And you feel like a newborn in this beautiful world. It might be poetic, but hearing what people that are better than you say is often useless. Because you don't have the same experience(s). And you're not them.

    Any concept that is going to carry with you or your peers needs to come from the bottom up. You need to feel it before you do it and know it. You need to know it before you can relay it. You need the people you relay it to to feel it before they can put it to use.

    Feeling for these issues comes through experience. I would say there are a bunch of techniques and a heap of technology (again, TRE, Doyletics, tired of repeating) that allow you to get the experience less painfully and sooner. But, you cannot really understand social interactions without the experience.

    Do the drills.
    Get the experience.
    Your deserved success.
    Talk down to noobs.
    Very softly.
    Repeat.

    Because chances are the drills really save us all, at some point or another. So you need to relay the drills. Make it your heritage.

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