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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post

    I'm sorry Mr. Beckstar but what you're writing here seems kind of weird to me. Let's exchange roles for a while to show you what I mean:

    So you're a guy who is quite confident with your sexuality and have slept with quite a few women, found out some special sexual kinks that really work for you and you feel quite happy about it. You have a few male friends you hang out with, you have a few female friends you hang out with (with some of whom you explore your sexuality further if it feels right). There's one woman you are used to hanging out with though that's acting kind of weird lately, since for some reason she seems to think that because you sleep with certain woman means that you're supposed to sleep with her, too. You kind of like that woman as a person but for some reason she just doesn't fall into the "I'll enjoy sleeping with you"-category. After a while she'll demand that you sleep with her or else she will stop spending time with you, to which you basically reply with an "are you nuts?"-face. Something is a little odd about her, perhaps she's not feeling well? Since you've spent quite some time together in the past, you offer to spend more time with her, even go on a holiday together, perhaps she's only in need for some attention?

    Obviously the guy in the above story is supposed to be her and you're in her role. You know apart from what seems to be taught around here at times, being DTF (down to fuck) doesn't mean someone who is DTF will sleep with just anyone that comes along. It's an expression that seeks to express a sort of willingness or a lack of obstacles if the initial attraction is there. In your case, it's either not there in the first place or someone (judging from your writing it's probably mostly you) keeps on putting obstacles in the way.

    Demanding she sleep with you or you'll stop seeing her alltogether is probably the worst idea I have ever read around here. Seriously. You got an about 99% chance she'll think WTF?! This guy is creepy. I'm glad I won't be spending time with him anymore. Or, even worse, she doesn't want to lose your "friendship" (whatever that is for you) and does sleep with you as a reaction to your threat. Congratulations! You just more or less blackmailed her into a sexual act. You proud?
    Jester
    Ok now I understand that I acted like a big idiot and wont work and even if it works it doesnt seems to be a pleasure. However I feel I also need to defent myself a bit. If I turn around the role play I also see that's not nice from her what she does. She made me constantly jealous and horny with her stories. Most of the time she is telling me her crazy sex stories.



    This post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how attraction works.

    Dont end the friendship. Subtly refrain from hanging/talking much to her, until you reach a much better understanding.
    Is there anything I can do out of the field aka reading or does it come with expirience infield? Or in other words how can I gain that understanding fast?

  2. #12
    Member Supernova's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 9.00 out of 10 with 2 votes.

    Ok now I understand that I acted like a big idiot and wont work and even if it works it doesnt seems to be a pleasure. However I feel I also need to defent myself a bit. If I turn around the role play I also see that's not nice from her what she does. She made me constantly jealous and horny with her stories. Most of the time she is telling me her crazy sex stories.

    A need to defend oneself is just a feeling of insecurity. When you feel secure there is nothing to defend from. It takes time, but having abundance and other women makes it so you are not on guard and instead pleasure giving.

    I had a situation this past two weeks with one of my girls. A 9 here and I smashed her twice, but then she told me about a previous committment she had to some guy. I told her that I understood and then she asked me to hang out the other day.

    She says, "There will be no kissing or no sex...blah blah."
    I ignore and then she texts back, "Please I need you..." Blah Blah....
    I tell her, "I am sorry you are going through that." and "Hope you get to feel better."
    She responds, "So you don't want to hang out as just my friend."
    I don't respond.

    I still really like and care for this girl, but she does not provide the value for me to spend my time with her. Eventually she is likely to come around and want to have sex with me again (this is LSNFE), but had I said, "whatever go be with your boyfriend." It is not nearly as likely. I accept her and her decision and yet I also decide what kind of people and relationships have in my life and to the extent that I have them in my life. If it isn't her, it will be another girl.
    -Supernova

  3. #13
    Member ijjjji's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 5.50 out of 10 with 2 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    Is there anything I can do out of the field aka reading or does it come with expirience infield? Or in other words how can I gain that understanding fast?
    Maybe this: http://www.rsdnation.com/node/60088
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

  4. #14
    Member Sase's Avatar
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    Wow! Not in a judgmental way. I'm just blown away by the OP. First time I read it I thought it was a parody. The: [I have a friend, what's wrong with the fucking slut? she won't let me fuck her, slap her around and piss on her even though we both like that shit... and she's my friend. So why won't she let me do it to her? Should I stop being friends with her?] ...LOL. And then the 20% pimping contract... it just seems soo surreal. Sorry Beckstar, I have not much constructive to add and I'm fascinated by your thread, probably for the wrong reason.
    I recall BD submitting once that men should not hang out with hot women which they are not fucking, that it was somehow emasculating. I disagreed with him then and I still do. I love being surrounded by attractive people, whether I fuck them or not. I do agree that if your attraction to a woman drives you crazy or it is a source for frustration, then you should probably get some space from her. Yeah, I can see how that could turn one into an orbiter and be a bit emasculating. I don't think it's your case though. I think your frustration stems from the dissonance between reality and your entitlement (to her body, actions, thinking feeling, sex, etc.)

  5. #15
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    ... how can I gain that understanding fast?
    I see someone downvoted IJ's post with no explanation. This is becoming the most annoying troll habit on this site. Anyway, ignore the down-vote, this is the best answer so far:
    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post

  6. #16
    Member COCPORN's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    RSD are (is?) heavy handed. They are the Wile E. Coyote of pickup. They need to paint everything out.

    Skimming this thread, I was just thinking: You just need to fractionate.

    By asking the question: "Should I end the friendship?" you've positioned yourself where you could rather drive it into the dump with uncalibrated fractionation, with excellent learning potential.

    This is good; it means that you are willing to walk away.

    I have sort of a circle I use:

    1) State your business: I think you're cute and I want to be with you, I think you have beautiful eyes and I want to lick them, I want to lick your anus.

    2) Given a bad response, pull back. This is the only time I would actually advocate saying something like "I'm just kidding" (unless it is obviously not something you'd do normally. I never do, but I never need to.)

    3) Wait until it seems like a good idea to bring it up again. If you want until the sun explodes (and you might), that's fine. You need to be fine with losing.

    In 1) it is important that whatever you say is deemed acceptable but forward. Not excessive. Acceptable but forward.

    If she says "Oh, I don't think of you like that", you pull back and just let whatever happen.

    Obviously, when you get a good response on 1) you just keep going. Reassess.

    The importance of this is the idea of fractionating it. If she has accepted you being forward before, she will understand you are a person who "is forward". This gives you a whole new playing field. Making your intentions know and at the same time showing a willingness to go for it is gold. The fact that you're showing you will back off when needed what makes this a beautiful circle, because all of a sudden it revolves around your desire, availability and understanding.

    I have a vague memory of writing a lot of fractionation and trying to make sense of it before it became muscle memory. I still think it might be one of the holy grails.

    Getting this right the first (or second (or third)) time isn't easy. But think of fractionation like a rubber band. You are stretching it, almost to its breaking point. The next time, it will stretch a little further. People are like rubber bands. Or they tell you to just fuck off. You need to be willing to take the "I have no idea what the fuck you're doing, please go away." Doubly so if you are long time friends. But fractionation also works because you are friends. This has to do with balancing investment.

    People in the community don't often talk about fractionation, or, when they do, they don't go to lengths to describe it.

    My guess is that this is because most people who are successful either consider it a microcorrection; "something you do for a second in field"---a "gambit", or they are unaware that they need it. Perhaps they don't even need it. There was a time in "my carreer" where I was convinced that fractionation is the end-all of pickup.

    I would say you need to do what anybody really needs to do:

    1) Show you intention.
    2) Make yourself attainable.
    3) Fractionate.

    Put something in, get something back. Convert it into what you want. Walk away when it fails. Or else, just rinse and repeat.

  7. #17
    Member Supernova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COCPORN View Post
    RSD are (is?) heavy handed. They are the Wile E. Coyote of pickup. They need to paint everything out.

    Skimming this thread, I was just thinking: You just need to fractionate.

    By asking the question: "Should I end the friendship?" you've positioned yourself where you could rather drive it into the dump with uncalibrated fractionation, with excellent learning potential.

    This is good; it means that you are willing to walk away.

    I have sort of a circle I use:

    1) State your business: I think you're cute and I want to be with you, I think you have beautiful eyes and I want to lick them, I want to lick your anus.

    2) Given a bad response, pull back. This is the only time I would actually advocate saying something like "I'm just kidding" (unless it is obviously not something you'd do normally. I never do, but I never need to.)

    3) Wait until it seems like a good idea to bring it up again. If you want until the sun explodes (and you might), that's fine. You need to be fine with losing.

    In 1) it is important that whatever you say is deemed acceptable but forward. Not excessive. Acceptable but forward.

    If she says "Oh, I don't think of you like that", you pull back and just let whatever happen.

    Obviously, when you get a good response on 1) you just keep going. Reassess.

    The importance of this is the idea of fractionating it. If she has accepted you being forward before, she will understand you are a person who "is forward". This gives you a whole new playing field. Making your intentions know and at the same time showing a willingness to go for it is gold. The fact that you're showing you will back off when needed what makes this a beautiful circle, because all of a sudden it revolves around your desire, availability and understanding.

    I have a vague memory of writing a lot of fractionation and trying to make sense of it before it became muscle memory. I still think it might be one of the holy grails.

    Getting this right the first (or second (or third)) time isn't easy. But think of fractionation like a rubber band. You are stretching it, almost to its breaking point. The next time, it will stretch a little further. People are like rubber bands. Or they tell you to just fuck off. You need to be willing to take the "I have no idea what the fuck you're doing, please go away." Doubly so if you are long time friends. But fractionation also works because you are friends. This has to do with balancing investment.

    People in the community don't often talk about fractionation, or, when they do, they don't go to lengths to describe it.

    My guess is that this is because most people who are successful either consider it a microcorrection; "something you do for a second in field"---a "gambit", or they are unaware that they need it. Perhaps they don't even need it. There was a time in "my carreer" where I was convinced that fractionation is the end-all of pickup.

    I would say you need to do what anybody really needs to do:

    1) Show you intention.
    2) Make yourself attainable.
    3) Fractionate.

    Put something in, get something back. Convert it into what you want. Walk away when it fails. Or else, just rinse and repeat.
    Fractionation is a term based in hypnosis and is more simple than you make it here.

    It's a pattern of intensity and stillness. What you talk about here is just showing interest and backing off. Yes this does work as a loss of attention/affection/pleasure is far more powerful than continued amounts of such feelings.

    Such talk about high pressure in the way that you frame it is challenging to come across. When you tell a girl she is cute and you are interested, there is a lot of pressure on her. For the man that has success in this strategy I respect greatly, but feel that is beneficial to know that there are more options than just this and the implications are high reward yet high risk here.
    -Supernova

  8. #18



    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    Ok now I understand that I acted like a big idiot and wont work and even if it works it doesnt seems to be a pleasure. However I feel I also need to defent myself a bit. If I turn around the role play I also see that's not nice from her what she does. She made me constantly jealous and horny with her stories. Most of the time she is telling me her crazy sex stories.
    If she does tell you her crazy sex stories, she'll probably benefit somehow from doing so. She might enjoy talking about them with someone she feels secure with. She might get horny from the idea of you getting horny and her not allowing you to act on your horniness (like a dominance play thing). She might just enjoy making people feel bad for no apparent reason (in which case I would refrain from spending time with her, really).

    I did have an interesting situation a few weeks ago in which I was driving home from my favourite pub with my secondary woman and for some reason wasn't really in the mood for sex (or so I thought). Since she in turn was, she kept teasing me to overcome my own inner obstacles up to the point when she took some blankets from her bed and told me to sleep in the bed she would sleep on the couch. I felt so weird about it (it was her flat after all) that it helped me overcome some weird thoughts that had prevented me from feeling into my own horniness. Interesting enough, we had quite crazy sex afterwards which I really enjoyed. So there's a very low chance she's trying to help you overcome your own inner obstacles with the whole telling you about sexual experiences stuff.

    A side note: a lot of people think they can "make" other people jealous, but the core of jealousy must always be already inside of the one you'd like to "make jealous" or it won't work. So she's not making you jealous really but playing on what is already there. You can stop seeing her alltogether so she cannot make you jealous anymore but it won't help overcoming the situation that any new woman you encounter (or any man, for that matter) will be able to play on your inner fears as long as you'll have the core problem inside.

    Jester
    Bunterrichten - Alternativen zum Unter-richten:

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijjjji View Post
    This is worth trying out. In my understanding the core principle behind it is to pull her power over sex away. When you say for example you are like my little sister you "frame" her as a female that you like but you dont have interest in sex. That remembers me somehow about the theory of juggler where he puts "imaginary obstacles" to maintain the tension.

    @Jester: The thing with the jealous is right. I'm jealous to some degree and she triggers it. To the point with the why she does it: I dont believe she just likes to see me suffering but I also got the feeling that she gets some pleasure out of it, why ever it is...

    The missunderstanding of the attraction process may be the biggest problem. - I make a distinction between creating attraction via cold approach and situations like I'm now. I dont see any real seduction process there. We are friends in the longterm and know each very well so I never tried to use any seduction stuff. I sometimes tested out behaviours but as as said I see there a difference. Because the one is with women I dont know the other is with girls I know really well and want to sleep with. I always thought the rules cannot be applied here.

    But I really need your help to understand that because I was running into several times the last few years.
    I had already 3 "friendships" with girls where I ended because the girls were not willing to take the next step. I always beliefed and stated: when we connect and understand us so well why can we not go a step further? We share every secret, every thought. You have a stronger bond to me then to the guys you are sleeped with the last time. So why dont we sleeping with another. It really makes me sick that I cannot understand this......

  10. #20
    Member Sase's Avatar
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    This post has been ranked 10.00 out of 10 with 1 votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    ...I make a distinction between creating attraction via cold approach and situations like I'm now. I dont see any real seduction process there. We are friends in the longterm and know each very well so I never tried to use any seduction stuff. I sometimes tested out behaviours but as as said I see there a difference. Because the one is with women I dont know the other is with girls I know really well and want to sleep with. I always thought the rules cannot be applied here.
    And so they are not attracted to you in that way. why is this strange to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckstar101 View Post
    ... I always beliefed and stated: when we connect and understand us so well why can we not go a step further? We share every secret, every thought. You have a stronger bond to me then to the guys you are sleeped with the last time. So why dont we sleeping with another. It really makes me sick that I cannot understand this...
    Sex is not the "next step" considering the direction in which you've been moving. Also, your mother, your sister, and your best male friend understand and know you pretty well. It doesn't mean you should have sex with them. Seduction is different. Not that you can't have casual, maintenance sex (or just curiosity sex) with your friends. I have and it wasn't the most memorable either. I found that getting drunk together helps with getting over the dual role dissonance. Still there must be something in you that turns your frinds off sexually (possibly scares them off?). You seem to think it's all them so it's hard to say what you could change.

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