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  1. #1
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    Male "episodic" memory and female "emotional" memory explained

    This is a reply I wrote on my own forum to a guy who had asked a question using this typical male thought process, which you will all recognize as being the template of practically every question posted on this forum. No offence to him or anyone -- I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between male and female thinking, and why this kind of thought process is essentially irrelevant.

    I met up with a woman and all this happened [insert irrelevant details], and I'm not sure if she was attracted to me or not. Where do I go from here in order to get this woman?
    The question is, was she attracted to you? If you don't know, then it means she probably wasn't. When a woman is attracted to you, it is just obvious -- you can just "feel" it in the air. Everything is different. Everything feels electric.

    Even if she was attracted however, that doesn't mean anything is going to happen in the future. If you invite her out now, she'll probably say no even if she was attracted during the earlier interaction. Why? Because now you're not around and she's not feeling that same emotion.

    There is a key difference between male and female thinking, but I've never really seen it written out properly, on any forum, so I'll make the attempt now.

    A man's mind is quite "episodic" in the way its memory works. That means you assemble a memory of an experience with another human being as a series of "facts" (from your perspective) about what happened, how you felt, and what that person is like. Those facts can be used to make informed judgments later on when dealing with that person again, independent of how that person is behaving now. So, for example, if you have a major problem with another man, when you meet him next, even if he's being really nice and making you feel different, you still have those "facts" on record about the unpleasantness which happened last time, and you can use those facts to influence your response to him and make a more informed decision about how to proceed. This is called JUDGMENT.

    Women do not particularly think like this. And this is what most men really don't understand, especially when they are writing posts such as yours (no offence, this is just an almost universally misunderstood thing). It makes the whole "timeline" element, the "narrative" or "story" part of your experience with her, irrelevant.

    Let me explain. If you meet her and you're in that attractive mood, "state", mindset or whatever, and you can just feel that she's attracted to you, everything feels electric, and awesome, then that right there is "the moment". You can literally just find somewhere to go, and have sex with each other. She is in the grip of her emotions, and this renders her "episodic" memory -- the "facts" -- completely irrelevant, and temporarily wiped from her mind. That is why it's so easy for women to cheat on their boyfriends and things. Having been the one causing girls to cheat on their boyfriends these last several months, I can tell you, their emotions just take over them like that *snaps fingers* and they can't focus on anything besides you right there in the moment.

    Now this is where it gets interesting. You can be a complete nerd and not attractive in any form when you first meet her. Yet, next time you bump into her, if you (for whatever reason) are in that awesome attractive state, she will just magically be attracted to you. Her "nerd" impression of you from last time just gets wiped from her memory. At this point she will often say things such as, "You're different!" or find "new" things about you to like, e.g. "I like your new jacket!" or whatever. These are just rationalizations. Women are very "split personality" like this, because their emotions grip them SO HARD -- especially sex drive and attraction. You can literally fuck something up completely the first time you see her, but if you're "on" the next time, all will be forgotten.

    Do you understand now why all the "facts" you've put in your original post -- the "story" of "what happened" -- are irrelevant? It's either "on" or it's not, and if it's on, the moment to fuck her is NOW. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Due to this "split personality" effect she has when her emotional state is different, your text asking her out will just register as just another guy hassling her for sex and she'll blow you off, or maybe meet up with you if she hasn't had male attention for a while. Your behaviour during the last meet-up however is largely irrelevant in her decision. She'll base her decision more on "Have I been on enough dates recently?" (so it's more about just meeting some societal expectation of her that exists only in her mind, than it is because she truly remembers much about you).

    This "split personality" women have due to emotional grip, by the way, is the reason women can keep going back to boyfriends who beat them. When she's away from her abusive boyfriend, and she's in physical pain from the injuries, and all her friends and family are telling her she needs to get out of that situation (social pressure), and she's really feeling like shit as a result of all this, she is one person. But when she sees him again, and he exerts that powerful attractive effect over her, all the previous stuff temporarily gets forgotten, and she is suddenly a different person. They fuck (which grips her emotionally even more), she gets back with him, then the cycle repeats.

    Now, I'm not saying men don't do this. They definitely do. It's just that the threshold does seem to be rather higher before men start to exhibit this "split personality" effect. One strong example is addictions. When I was addicted to gambling, I was one person when in the remorseful emotional state. But quite another, with different memories and thought processing styles, at the moment the addictive urge took its hold over me.

    So, let's get back to your situation in your original post, here, to bring closure to all of this. All your thoughts about "what happened" are basically irrelevant. If you text her to ask her out or whatever right now, she will most likely say no regardless of how she felt while with you, for reasons explained above. Girls just generally don't agree to meet up with guys, because they're being asked literally all the time. This is why Brent Smith says there is never any excuse for pursuing a woman -- you are just triggering her automatic programmed behaviours from years of experience which tell her, "This is just another guy trying to get me, the same as all the rest -- ignore!!" There is a difference if you have already had sex with her and given her a great sexual experience. In this case, her emotional memory of you can be strong enough to put her back partially into that state and have her want to meet up with you for a repeat performance. However, even that is not a guarantee. The point is not to get caught up with any particular woman.

    Your thoughts about her right now are completely irrelevant for all the reasons stated above. It doesn't mean beat yourself up or try and stop thinking about it all, it just means be aware that thinking about it won't change anything. It does mean learn what "attractive states" look like, and how you personally reach them. I just take phenibut these days, since it solves all my problems. When you're in that good state, when you feel she is attracted and everything is electric, that's when you have sex with her. Anything outside that timeframe -- all your thoughts, feelings and memories of the situation -- are irrelevant. They won't change anything. So, rather than use this time to over-analyse and focus on this one specific woman, instead use it to:

    a) Work on "changing your story". A Brent Smith video about this can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkPMp0haLs
    So just use this time to practise your new story. I have mine in a Word document, which I read and refine every day while visualizing telling a friend the story in the exact natural tone of voice as though it is true for me right now. I try and speak it in my head as if I'm telling the truth how it is for me now -- and when any resistive emotions come up (cognitive dissonance) against this, I just let those emotions go and continue. For the record, things have been going great for me since I started doing this.

    b) Visualize meeting a new woman, or even this same woman, and having it go awesome from the start, all the way through to sex. So rather than "debugging" the past, you just construct a new perfect future timeline that doesn't need debugging. This doesn't mean get caught up and overly focused upon the woman you put in the visualization (always a oneitis danger, especially during times of scarcity). It just means use her as a template for how interactions with all women can go, in the future.

    These days if I fuck something up with a woman I don't even worry about it at all, since I know that next time, if I'm "on", her memory will just erase itself anyway, and she'll be attracted to me. It's all about emotional states -- yours and hers. Finally, I will add one more observation. If you did fuck things up last time, the quickest and most powerful way to have her "wipe" that memory and start being attracted to you instantly -- even more powerfully than just if you are "in state" -- is for you to be "in state" with another woman and who therefore is clearly attracted to you while the other woman is watching. Really, jealousy is the ultimate conversion factor for having women become interested in you again. I'm sure you could have killed her mother but, if you're seen interacting attractively with another woman (the more beautiful the better), her memory will be wiped and she'll be attracted to you again. I have converted some of the most unlikely situations in this way, and, if you're talking to women often, you will regularly be in this situation anyway, and therefore often have things working in your favour in this way.
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  2. #2
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    OK, so this explains why it can be easier to, if logistics are in place, get a girl home the same day/night versus get her out on a date.

    But...what does it mean practically for the getting-the-number-get-her-out cold approach?
    Just that it's an extremely low probability event and just play the numbers game and don't worry about what you did wrong when they don't respond to your txts or don't want to meet up with you?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminatus View Post
    You can literally fuck something up completely the first time you see her, but if you're "on" the next time, all will be forgotten.
    There are very few things you can do that really fuck things up. For anything less than a major mistake (e.g. using fast seduction then putting a relationship frame) then you can literally vanish from the girl for a month or longer and then "reset" interaction. This is an important point and it gives benefits and disadvantages.

    The benefits is that it allows you to reset the interaction if it went less than stellar previously and allows you to understand that for fast seduction, it has to happen within 1-2 interactions. The disadvantages is that any "moral" victory of escalating or going halfway in the earlier stages will not be permanent. It can actually backfire because the girl feels your incongruence if you do something halfway (e.g. imagine doing Brent Smith game and then getting oneitis and your frame gets inconsistent).

    Meeting a girl in January and then meeting the exact same girl in February can be night and day due to variables like: where she is on her menstrual cycle, if her boyfriend suddenly has turned beta, if your disposition has changed, and so many other variables.
    THREAD Illuminatus' male episodic memory versus female emotional memory is a great reminder about the premise that women love their feelings and if you associate yourself with these feelings you're in, at least in that particular moment.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank_ View Post
    OK, so this explains why it can be easier to, if logistics are in place, get a girl home the same day/night versus get her out on a date.
    Damn right!

    But...what does it mean practically for the getting-the-number-get-her-out cold approach?
    Just that it's an extremely low probability event and just play the numbers game and don't worry about what you did wrong when they don't respond to your txts or don't want to meet up with you?
    Yep! I think guys take a "no" (or, more often, her just ignoring you / flaking / blowing you off) way too personally, and start throwing all their thoughts and focus at analysing/"debugging" the situation. My post hopefully explains why it's not really your fault, there's nothing you can really "do" about it, and why you should not worry very much at all about any particular "no".
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokerodds View Post
    There are very few things you can do that really fuck things up. For anything less than a major mistake (e.g. using fast seduction then putting a relationship frame) then you can literally vanish from the girl for a month or longer and then "reset" interaction. This is an important point and it gives benefits and disadvantages.

    The benefits is that it allows you to reset the interaction if it went less than stellar previously and allows you to understand that for fast seduction, it has to happen within 1-2 interactions. The disadvantages is that any "moral" victory of escalating or going halfway in the earlier stages will not be permanent. It can actually backfire because the girl feels your incongruence if you do something halfway (e.g. imagine doing Brent Smith game and then getting oneitis and your frame gets inconsistent).

    Meeting a girl in January and then meeting the exact same girl in February can be night and day due to variables like: where she is on her menstrual cycle, if her boyfriend suddenly has turned beta, if your disposition has changed, and so many other variables.
    Wow, great breakdown pokerodds! Agree with all points.

    Regarding "permanently fucking things up", I would say that embarrassing her socially is possibly the #1 thing that can do that. If you are just a loser, you can turn that around next time you see her. But if you make her self-conscious of her social standing amongst her friends, this is a real problem, and one of the few "unrecoverables". Women are extremely attached to their social appearance -- more than any man could truly fathom, I believe.
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  6. #6



    I understand the overall message, but what is your point exactly regarding the sexes, that the episodic and emotional thresholds differ in male and females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminatus View Post
    There is a difference if you have already had sex with her and given her a great sexual experience. In this case, her emotional memory of you can be strong enough to put her back partially into that state and have her want to meet up with you for a repeat performance.
    Do you think sex leads to the highest form of emotional memory that exists? I would say the three most powerful emotional memories I have created were in girls whom, at the time, I in fact did not have sex with. In other words, their emotions were not controlled by any sexual contact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grocer View Post

    Do you think sex leads to the highest form of emotional memory that exists?

    The highest form of emotional memory, which is really a meaningless term, can be achieved by a great sexual experience--yes. Anytime your senses are engaged fully, an emotional memory is created. Sex is a great way to do it. There are plenty of other ways.

    I would say the three most powerful emotional memories I have created were in girls whom, at the time, I in fact did not have sex with. In other words, their emotions were not controlled by any sexual contact.

    So imagine how much more powerful they would have been with your dick inside her. I'm sure that time you held hands in the rain was wonderful, and I'm sure she remembers it fondly...but had it ended in mind-blowing sex, she'd have a hell of a better memory (and masturbation fuel)
    respondes in bold

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    Simon Baron Cohen, the brilliant psychologist, wrote treaties and books on "The Essential Difference" between male and female thinking.

    His conclusions:

    Male thinking = systemizing, organizing, categorizing

    Female thinking = emotions (particularly empathy)

    So Illuminatus's observations are well-backed by people with the tools and resources to really experiment and study this stuff, in a lab, with gigantic sample sizes.

    It's not just memory--it's how each gender shapes the world they live in.

    He also posits that Autism is just extreme-male-brain, and makes sound arguments for that theory.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grocer View Post
    I understand the overall message, but what is your point exactly regarding the sexes, that the episodic and emotional thresholds differ in male and females?
    That's right.

    But people are also on a spectrum. So I'm not saying "All men do this", or "All women do this" -- you can have a woman inclined towards more episodic memory and a man more inclined towards emotional memory. In the post I'm just describing the general pattern I've observed. There will always be exceptions.
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  10. #10



    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownMaverick View Post
    respondes in bold
    The thing with sex is that there is no longing that occurs during the act, except the longing for separation. Thus, I think it can take away from the overall emotional memory. But sometimes add to it as well, depending on the situation.

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